GENBOX-L Archives

Archiver > GENBOX > 2004-03 > 1079048135


From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:35:43 -0800
In-Reply-To: <20040311231133.775053897E@apate.telenet-ops.be>


For a death certificate, for example, the word Name isn't adequate? Someone
needs some explanation? Give me a break. If that isn't clear, then heaven
help us all.

I just don't want to see GenBox dumbed down, nor even have the appearance of
being dumbed down. CheriC


-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Vuijlsteke [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:11 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard


Cheri, I feel you're getting worked up over something and I have no idea
why.

No-one's trying to force you to do anything. This would just be an
additional field, allowing people who make a template to add some
explanation beyonf default text or a one-word label.

And besides, imagine you want to enter a default value *and* you want to
assist new users who don't necessarily know what they're doing with a
message like "this is where you enter the name of the person that died"...?

It's like (mutatis mutandis!) saying you don't really need witness roles in
your template, just generate every possible combination of roles with W1,
W2, W3--and then you only have to delete the non-appropriate phrase on the
event tabs...

Michel

-----Original Message-----
From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
Sent: donderdag 11 maart 2004 23:38
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard

No, I'm not using field for other than what it is intended for. Not all
censuses have every place structure. I fill in the numbers after the fields
that I need & delete those that I don't. And some of the default text that
remains *is* what I have placed in the template, i.e., the words "district,
enumeration district, etc.," i.e., the default value. I just put every
possible default value there, use what I need & delete what I don't.
Placing every possible combination of census place structure as default text
into the appropriate field ensures that I always have the "populated" text
in the same order. I do not use the default text to hold words like "entry,
volume, etc." because that seems like a waste to me to avoid typing perhaps
10 characters. Rather I find it far more valuable to use it for consistent
order of items.

A descriptor field isn't necessary and would only serve to remind me that I
needed to put all of those census places into a given order. Why do that
when I can stick them all in as default text and use what I need, deleting
what I don't? Seems like having a "descriptor" field would not serve to
lessen work nor necessarily add to consistency because I would still end up
typing all of those text strings into the field; the descriptor would remind
me what I needed to type. My design precludes me having to type those text
strings; they already exist; I pick & choose what I need.

And, anyway who says I can't use a field for what *I* want? If a program
were designed for cookie cutter usage, then there wouldn't even be any need
for discussion of a wizard because the program would take care of it all for
you with no brains required.

CheriC



-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Vuijlsteke [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:37 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard


Ah yes, but then you're using fields for things they were not intended for.
If you're going to have a "default value" field, use it to store the default
value.
If you want a place to clarify what the content of a field should be, you
need a separate field for that.

Michel


-----Original Message-----
From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
Sent: donderdag 11 maart 2004 21:15
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard

Michel - But you can do this already by adding default text to each field
and/or changing the field labels (I've done both). You simply delete and
type over the default field text. I have such in place for my census
template to remind me the order in which I need to enter city, district,
precinct, ward, enumeration district, supervisor's district, township,
long/lat, family/farm, visit, line numbers. I have some field lables that
say **Empty**.

I think this can be done under the current structure. Additionally the
Research Notes of the Source is a great place to put in these types of
things. I often put in a little note to remind me what the CD should
contain and these are easily accessible from any level.

CheriC

-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Vuijlsteke [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:06 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard


Cheri,

I know. That's why I didn't describe a sources wizard per se.
Perhaps add a field in the template definition to add an explation to each
of the fields in a template? That way you could have an explanation
somewhere as you go from field to field, e.g. for a civil death certificate
in Belgium:

Field labels:
- Title: (not used)
- Qualifier: (not used)
- Place: "Administration": "Enter the place the death certificate was issued
in. This is usually a city or village."
- Doc Subject: "Subject": "Enter the name of the person who died, exactly
the way it appears in the certificate."
- Date: "Date": "Enter the date the certificate was issued. Note: this can
be a number of days after the actual death!"
- Locater: "Cert. #": "Enter the certificate number, usually to be found in
the upper left hand corner."

Michel

-----Original Message-----
From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
Sent: donderdag 11 maart 2004 16:01
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard

Michel - How would a wizard accommodate the various types of sources that
are culturally unique? For example, UK censuses are -- it is my
understanding -- quite unique from US censuses. Likewise with a variety of
records. I think there are monumental implications of trying to create a
wizard to handle such a breadth of sources and allow for such differences.
CheriC

-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Vuijlsteke [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:18 AM
To:
Subject: [GENBOX] sourcing wizard


I don't have that much else to do :) so I thought I'd flesh out my wizard
idea a bit.

Here's how I would see a wizard that would guide a user to add source
information to an assertion.

Step 1. Explain the process, choose existing source or new source.
For existing sources: show last x used (10?) + "More...", and/or allow
typing in the combobox, continue with step 2.
For new sources: create the new source first (see below), then continue

Step 2. Format the citation
a. Show what the citation looks like (as in primary citation on formatting
tab). Ask if this is specific enough to find the necessary support for the
assertion. If not, add "where in source" information + refresh preview b. Do
you want to add an introduction to the citation, e.g. "Birth date can be
deduced from" or "Name variation as seen in signature on"? If so, add "lead
text" + refresh preview.
c. Do you want to add an annotation, e.g. "Additional information in the
margin" or "Very poor quality copy"? If so, add "annotation" + refresh
preview.

Step 3. Support level and credibility
a. How much does the source (name) support you assertion (detail)? Radio
buttons for the differrnt support levels + short explanation b. How much
credibility do you attach to the source? Radio buttons for the differrent
credibility levels + short explanation c. Do you want to briefly explain why
you believe the cited source is relevant to the current assertion? This
information is for your own personal research purposes, and does not
normally appear on output reports. You can store here the reasons why you
assigned a low/high support level or low/high credibility, or the facts
extracted from the source that you think make your case, or personal
reminders of work yet to be performed. If so, add "rationale" info.

Step 4. Surety
Show the assertion and list all different citations for the assertion
(highlight the latest one).
"With all these citations, how sure are you of this assertion?" Radio
buttons for surety levels + explanation.

Step 5. The end
Showa final preview of the assertion + footnotes.
Offer the chance to manually fine tune: open citation and source window.

Now there are a few obvious problems, mostly because in "normal use" you
tend to sometimes go back and fort between the citation and the source, so
if you see there's something wrong in step 2 you'd have to be able to go to
the source definition to change the formatting-- and the wizard should
abviously be in a modal window, so you can't do anything else than the
wizard unless you close it.

I also don't really see how you could make a good wizard to add new sources,
because any (hard coded) wizard is going to have to depend on the
(non-modified!) existence of certain sources.

What I *can* see however, is source wizards for certain common types f
sources. In Belgium those would be birth/death/marriage civil records,
baptism/burial/marriage church records, photos, interviews, books, etc.

Michel


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==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
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==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
To join this list, send an email to with the
word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
and they will appear on this list.

==============================
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Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237




==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
To join this list, send an email to with the
word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
and they will appear on this list.

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Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237



==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
To join this list, send an email to with the
word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
and they will appear on this list.

==============================
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Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237




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word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
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