GENBOX-L Archives

Archiver > GENBOX > 2004-02 > 1075993142


From: "Paul J. Harris" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:59:02 -0500
In-Reply-To: <MIEAKKPBJMFNGBDLNJFFOEMCCNAA.jimchstn@webulan.com>


Hi Jim,

It's nice to be understood! <g>

I have had the Citation View open while doing all of this with 3.1.10, and
have not seen the problems that you have had. I realize that you can get
separate citations with spaces (or any text) between them, but then you have
a misleading result.

Example 1:

Her burial was under the direction of Edgar J. Snell.[S14572*][S14539*]

Results in one note number, but only one citation prints.

Example 2:

Her burial was under the direction of Edgar J. Snell.[S14572*] [S14539*]

A space between the citation references creates two separate citations,
but it also creates two separate note reference numbers, which are
superscripted and separated by a space. If they are notes 3 and 4, in
superscript it looks like 34!

It appears to me that this limitation in embedded citations is a result of
the fact that EACH citation is represented in the note, rather than linking
them to a symbol that represents the Assertion, as is done for data items in
events.

Perhaps the note should only show [*] instead of [S14572*][S14539*], then
when you click in [*] and click the source button, you would open the
Assertion and see the multiple citations there, not in the note itself.

Paul




-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Chesteen [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 2:39 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Paul,

I've been reading your discussion with Cheri concerning citations. As you
once mentioned, are we the only three using embedded citations in notes?(!!)

I reinstalled 3.1.9 because of the problems in 3.1.10 with embedded
citations but I do have "strings" of citations just as you mentioned and
they are working ok, showing on reports, etc. Now, I do have to place a
space between the "brackets", i.e. [s100] [s101], when embedding, if I leave
the cursor next to the right bracket of the first citation, nothing happens
and I get your reported result, but hitting the space bar once, then the
source button will insert another citation and this appears as two distinct
foot or endnotes on the output.

I am not having any problems with 3.1.9 after Bill suggested that I keep the
source and citation views open, no insertions a few spaces to the left or
"doubles". But, I could not add an embedded citation at all with 3.1.10,
only had the [sNEW] and nothing generated on any reports.

Jim Chesteen

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 8:53 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Cheri,

I would guess that the difference is that you are using the workaround you
described by CREATING the citation in the Research Notes field, then cutting
and pasting it next to the one in the General Notes field. What I am saying
is that if you click in, or next to, the existing citation and go through
the steps to add another, it is NOT separate from the existing one, is
grouped under the same Assertion as the existing one, and will only print
the first one cited. This is way different from what you are doing with your
"workaround." I'm only trying to point out to Bill, and others, that under
these circumstances, Genbox will allow you to THINK you have created
additional citations for output, but will only output the first one.

Paul

And Genbox MAKES us 'reevaluate' the Surety by wiping it out when we add a
source citation to an assertion. At first, I thought this was a bug, then I
realized it was a feature working in my favor. <g>

Interestingly, this whole process works very differently when creating
citations in the Notes fields. When opening an existing citation in a Note
field and adding an additional source, the Surety level is NOT dropped, and
is reflected in BOTH of the citation references generated in the Notes
field. It almost appears that the design of embedded citations does not
include the possibility of citing more than one source, collectively, for
one item, as each citation is listed separately, even though they are
created within a single Assertion?

Paul




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