GENBOX-L Archives

Archiver > GENBOX > 2004-02 > 1075917133


From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:52:58 -0800
In-Reply-To: <FFEBLNNBNENFDKOPJEBPMEFCEIAA.paulharris@nc.rr.com>


Paul - If you are even able to create a second citation in the same field,
you are lucky because currently this isn't working as it is supposed to.
Hence the required workaround. Cheri

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:53 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Cheri,

I would guess that the difference is that you are using the workaround you
described by CREATING the citation in the Research Notes field, then cutting
and pasting it next to the one in the General Notes field. What I am saying
is that if you click in, or next to, the existing citation and go through
the steps to add another, it is NOT separate from the existing one, is
grouped under the same Assertion as the existing one, and will only print
the first one cited. This is way different from what you are doing with your
"workaround." I'm only trying to point out to Bill, and others, that under
these circumstances, Genbox will allow you to THINK you have created
additional citations for output, but will only output the first one.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:14 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Sorry, no cigar. They are thus:

This is to test the notes field.[S9597][S9598][S9599]

I get a string citation with all three sources. Currently, however, to add
additional embedded citations (due to a bug that is being fixed), I create
the second and subsequent embedded citaitons in the research notes field and
then cut & paste the "coding" into the general notes field.

So I can't explain why you are getting only one citation on output unless it
has to do with the string citation options at the time the report is
generated.

CheriC



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:56 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Cheri,

You're right, I lost you, so let me back up and show you how what I am
talking about is different from the situation that you just described.

Let's say I have a General Note with the following statement:

Her burial was under the direction of Edgar J. Snell.

One statement. Now I want to insert an embedded citation to document the
source, so I place the curser to the right of the period, click the Source
Button on the Tool Bar, and enter a source citation, which gives me:

Her burial was under the direction of Edgar J. Snell.[S14572*]

Now I find another source that supports this statement in an identical way,
so I want to add another citation. If I to click in or to the right of the
existing citation, then click the Citation Button, it opens the EXISTING
Assertion and allows you to add another source to it. When you return to the
Note field you see two citations:

Her burial was under the direction of Edgar J. Snell.[S14572*][S14539*]

But when you preview or print, only the first will print.

My guess is that your note with three embedded citations has text separating
the citations. Yes?

Paul




-----Original Message-----
From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 4:52 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Paul - You've lost me about the "symbol" part. Something is amiss because I
have a Note with 3 embedded citations and EACH of them shows up on the
report. Why you are only getting one, I don't know. Perhaps you have
string cites unticked? Just a guess.

CheriC

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:11 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Cheri,

It appears that this is the obvious design intent for embedded citations, as
they are sorta like citations without defined assertions. IOW, they refer to
ALL text preceding them. It is just that you can place the cursor on an
existing embedded citation, click the Source Button on the Toolbar, and you
are taken to an Assertion Tab for the existing citation. Here, you can add
additional sources, but for each one you add, an additional citation number
will show up immediately following the existing one in the Note field, and
they all share the same surety, if one cared about such things. <g> On
printout, only the first citation will print, so what 'appears' to be
permitted, is a little misleading.

For it to be possible to have multiple citations to the same text, it would
seem that we would need to see a SYMBOL in the text representing the
Assertion, rather than reference to the specific citation.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:54 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Paul - I haven't tried using the Ctrl-L to add second and succeeding sources
in the Notes field, rather I create separate embedded citations for each
source. One reference number is created and one string citation is created
with all of the sources there display in both preview and word processor
generated forms. I have never entertained the idea that there was any other
way to do this so I've not had any problems (other than the known with
second & subsequent embedded citations and for which there is a work
around).

CheriC

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 8:30 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Follow-up. When more than one source citation is attached to a single
assertion in a Notes field, only the first citation prints on output.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 10:47 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Misty, Bill, et al.

Misty wrote:

"While I'd like to be able to say that my surety levels never change once
I've set them, the addition of new sources to an event always makes me
reevaluate the quality of my previous sources, and my opinions ARE subject
to change (on occasion). <g>"

And Genbox MAKES us 'reevaluate' the Surety by wiping it out when we add a
source citation to an assertion. At first, I thought this was a bug, then I
realized it was a feature working in my favor. <g>

Interestingly, this whole process works very differently when creating
citations in the Notes fields. When opening an existing citation in a Note
field and adding an additional source, the Surety level is NOT dropped, and
is reflected in BOTH of the citation references generated in the Notes
field. It almost appears that the design of embedded citations does not
include the possibility of citing more than one source, collectively, for
one item, as each citation is listed separately, even though they are
created within a single Assertion?

Paul


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