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Archiver > GENBOX > 2004-02 > 1075684420


From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 17:14:07 -0800
In-Reply-To: <002401c3e924$21c18150$6600a8c0@reillyind.com>


Debbie - In most instances my annotations are enclosed in square brackets
and often preceded by Note, i.e. [Note: Yada yada] This lets me see
specifically what is analysis, conclusion, etc. About the only time I don't
do this is if I use Annotation for the source of a source in which case it
either reads "citing such and such" or just "such and such" depending on how
I've designed the source. (I use the Research Notes field of the source to
layout notes on how a source and the various fields should be used. In
case, I forget, it is only a click or two away from the citation window.)

I often copy & paste the annotations for each source used for an event/fact
into the Research Notes field as well. This lets me see them all in one
place. But each has different needs and uses and if this would help you
guys, great, but not at the expense at the citation window as it now exists;
adjunct to, toggle, or some such, but not in place of.

CheriC

-----Original Message-----
From: Debbie Wesley [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 4:33 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


Cheri,

This is great that we can have this dialog, and shows that it is difficult
to create the "Perfect" program. I have played with using the sentence
preview, even using italics or underlines for the Annotation field (which I
currently use to store the my data to go with the citation.) I still find it
very difficult to truly compare the data and their related sources this way,
and find myself hand-written charts of information.

I appreciate we each have different needs. If "Relevant Fact" (or whatever
the possible new field is called) was added as a new column those who feel
it is extraneous could drag the column width to nothing, in essence the same
as making it optional. This is what I have done with the ID and Source ID
columns.

Debbie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheri Casper" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish


> Paul, Bill, Debbie, et al.,
>
> I can see the purpose of the proposal as being useful when you have
> suppressed citations or suppressed annotations. However, rather than
> opening up the citation window to check and compare between various facts,
> isn't it just easier to preview the sentence and see all of the citations
> with annotations, etc. all in one place? For the moment this serves my
> purposes.
>
> CheriC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:59 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Citation Wish
>
>
> Bill, Debbie, et al,
>
> Thank you for entertaining this discussion.
>
> Long ago, in a former life, I would have argued for an 'additional field'
> that was parallel to the CD linking the Citation and the Source. When I
came
> to Genbox and found that I had THREE additional fields that performed in
> this way, I don't know how I could ever be greedy enough to ask for more.
So
> my thought has always been to simply permit display of existing fields in
a
> table format for analysis, but since YOU, Bill, suggest the possibility of
> another field, I believe that suggestion has merit. <g>
>
> Bill said:
> > I was wondering if whether this information should go into an additional
> > source citation field? It sounds like you want to store your
> > "justification"
> > or the "relevant fact" or some sort of personal reminder for what
> > information you gleaned from the source to support the current
assertion.
> > Maybe this should be considered a research note attached to the
citation?
> >
> > The Lead Text, Excerpts, Annotation, and Citation Detail are all
> > assumed to
> > be "output" text, that should be formatted and presented on
> > reports. What it
> > sounds like you're describing is a note that should by default remain
> > internal, used only for your own purposes in making surety assessments.
It
> > could be a very short note, abbreviated like in your examples.
>
> I really think this is an excellent assessment of the situation. Assuming
> for the moment that you are considering an additional field, what is it
> called? I really don't like the term 'Relevant Fact' because of the word
> 'fact'. I WISH it was all FACT. <g> What I think it really is would be
> better described by a term like "Relevant Data", "Analysis Data",
> "Comparative Data", "Supporting Evidence", "Cited Evidence", "Relevant
> Evidence", "Contribution", or just "Data'. Oh, what's in a name?
>
> > Regarding seeing this information on the Assertion Page: would it be
> > acceptable to show the note/lead text/annotation/excerpt for the
currently
> > selected citation only, similar to how notes are shown on the
Identifiers
> > Page?
>
> No. In my opinion, this would not give us any more capability than we
> already have. I agree with Debbie, we must see the data from multiple
> sources at the same time for effective analysis.
>
> > Or should a column be added to the list for the selected text type?
>
> For the briefest of entries, this should be sufficient. Currently, using
the
> Annotation field for this purpose, because it is output we are rather
> compelled to write full sentences. If we had the other field for 'in
house'
> use, we could be much more brief.
>
> Example:
>
> Annotation: Indicates that she died last Saturday.
>
> Data: last Saturday
>
>
> > Or should the text for the selected text type appear in the list, on
> separate
> > lines interleaved between the citation lines?
>
> I personally like this idea, perhaps because I tend to create rather long
> source names that limit the available space in the row, and because it
would
> permit more data to show. At one time (DOS days) I expressed a desire for
> something like this (can't believe I still had this):
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sources Supporting Birth Tag of Mary E. Ward (487)
>
> Src # Abbreviation CD
> Evidence
> ======================================================================
> 384 U CenS-NY-SUF-1920-142-11A Entry for Mary E. Ward, line 15,
> family 125, dwelling 110
>
> age 26 in 1920 census, born in New York (estimate birth
> year to be 1893 since census was taken in January 1920)
>
> 421 U-NY-KIN CivB-1893-09-17
>
> Born 9/17/1893 at 386 Prospect Ave., Brooklyn, New York
>
> 480 Ward Family in America p. 274
>
> Their only daughter was born at home in the fall of 1893.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm assuming that this is along the lines of which you were speaking.
>
> Digging out this old example illustrates a point that I had not considered
> previously. Though I tend to create very SPECIFIC sources these days, for
> those that use GENERAL sources, in order to effectively evaluate the data,
> they may NEED to see the CD or the Lead Text at the same time to know
who's
> record the data came from. IOW, did that birth state come from the
> individual's census entry, or from one for their child?
>
> Here's a wild idea that just flew out of a body orifice: In a perfect
world,
> you could see 'all' of the fields in question by generating the citation
for
> each cited source in the assertion, perhaps with a toggle button like we
> currently have on the Formatting Tab. Toggling to from Source List to
> Analysis might give you something like this:
>
>
> -------------| (Toggle Button)
> Assertion Tab| |
>
> |-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Type: Event-Date |Source List/Analysis| |Surety Drop
> Down List|
> For: August R. Ruhlmann '--------------------'
> '---------------------'
> Context: Death 22 Mar 1972 Bayonne, Hudson County, New Jersey
> Item: Date: 22 March 1972
>
>
============================================================================
> ===========
> SRC| S|Cred |Cited Evidence |Cited Source
>
============================================================================
> ===========
> 642| /|Medium |[calc March 22] |"Died suddenly last night." August R.
> Ruhlmann
> | | | |obituary, Bayonne Times Features Now
> Appearing in the
> | | | |Jersey Journal, Bayonne, Hudson County,
New
> Jersey,
> | | | |23 March 1972, page 22 Bay, column 2.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------
> 855| /|Medium |Mar 1972 |August Ruhlmann, no. 138-07-3510, Social
> Security
> | | | |Death Index, Ancestry.com (Provo, Utah:
> MyFamily.com,
> | | | |Inc., May 2003). Died in Mar 1972.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------
> 942| /|High |22 Mar 1972 |Entry for August Ruhlmann, Individual
> Records of
> | | | |Interment, Bay View/New York Bay
Cemetery,
> Jersey
> | | | |City, Hudson County, New Jersey. Date of
> death hand
> | | | |written on typed file card.
>
============================================================================
> ===========
>
> Would be nice if row height could adjust automatically to show text in
Cited
> Source or Cited Evidence, whichever was longer, or be limited to
> user-defined limits like 3 lines of text. Also nice if column width still
> adjustable with the text reflowing to the adjustments. If possible, RTF
> formatting displayed in the Cited Source (italicized titles, etc.). For
the
> icing, the Support Level and Credibility Columns would be drop-down lists
> that would permit changing the values from this tab. I agree with Debbie
on
> this one. Sometimes, during analysis, your opinion of the source will
> change. <g>
>
> Okay, time to stop dreaming and return to the fruitful discussion.
>
> Bottom Line:
>
> Additional Field - nice, but not ABSOLUTELY necessary.
>
> Display - MUST be multiple at the same time to effect analysis.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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