GENBOX-L Archives

Archiver > GENBOX > 2003-10 > 1067053352


From: "William T. Flight" <>
Subject: Re: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:42:49 -0400
References: <FFEBLNNBNENFDKOPJEBPCEKKEBAA.paulharris@nc.rr.com>


Hi Paul,

The child block on narrative reports defaults to "Brief" format. If you go
to the Report Options Style page, you can clear the "Events: Child lists:
Brief" checkbox. Then any subtype or custom template for birth and/or death
will be used in its full form in the child block. That's your workaround for
now. <g>

I think using a subtype rather than a separate main tag is likely to be more
portable to other systems.
You could define a Birth subtype of "STILLBORN", with label "Stillborn" for
English, and have the following templates:

Forward: [P] was stillborn [D+L]
Reverse: [P] had a stillborn [child] [O] [D+L]

I could add some special code to Genbox so that it knows a Birth subtype of
"STILLBORN" means the individual is dead; then the event date will be used
for the death date as well.

For the "Brief" report setting, I think the best approach is to add a
"Brief" column to the Event Templates page, so that every event subtype
could have its own setting. Then you could define, for STILLBORN subtype:

Brief: stillborn [D+L]

This added template would allow users to tailor how each event type should
appear in the child blocks under the "Brief" setting. Right now, there are
no brief templates for events other than the standard basic events.

Best regards,

-- Bill

William T. Flight
http://www.thoughtfulcreations.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul J. Harris" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports


> Cheri,
>
> What you say about sentences is true in an Individual Narrative. You can
> make them say whatever you want. But in a Descendancy Narrative, a
stillborn
> has no children, so they never get their 'OWN' paragraph where these
custom
> sentences will generate. They will ONLY appear in a CHILD section of the
> report and there is currently NO WAY to make THAT SECTION of the report
SAY
> they were stillborn. It may be minutia, but it is a unique situation that
> Genbox does not appear to handle eloquently at this time. <g>
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:59 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Paul -The IRS aside, I have several still birth situations but in all
cases
> these children had death certificates. Now there is no logical way you
can
> have a death certificate without first being born. <g> You can always
just
> tweak the sentence to read as you wish or suppress the Birth sentence or
the
> Death sentence and write a combined sentence in the Sentence field or the
> Note field, whichever.
>
> I don't fret too much over the minutia.
>
> CheriC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 5:40 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Cheri,
>
> The only problem with that system is the child was never really born, with
a
> death event following. If you don't believe me, ask the IRS about taking
an
> exemption for the child during the tax year of the stillbirth! They won't
> let you.
>
> So, what are the implications of dealing with this situation in various
> ways? You have illustrated one. But in a narrative it would generate, 'So
> and so, born on ..., died of stillborn on ...."
>
> I would also probably consider entering ONLY a Death event, subtype
> Stillborn, but again, I think we run into a problem on the Descendancy
> Narrative, which doesn't care about Subtypes on Birth and Death events. It
> just says, "So and so, born on ..., died on ....
>
> I'm afraid that the only way you could get that report to say 'stillborn
on
> ...' is to have a specific Stillborn Event that is recognized by the
report
> generator as a Birth/Death event, and substitutes the appropriate
language.
>
> Perhaps I am missing something in the program design, or Bill has another
> way of dealing with this? I can't find anything in the online help
> addressing the issue.
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:38 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Paul - I use the standard birth event and create a death event wherein the
> cause of death is "stillborn." I think Stillborn Event must have come
over
> from your previous program; I'm not seeing it as a default Event.
>
> CheriC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 1:44 PM
> To:
> Subject: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> I have used a Stillborn Event. The Event Template may be from Genbox or my
> import, I am not sure. At any rate, the template IS in the Birth Class.
> Apparently, this is only for grouping, as the date does not initiate a
> birth. Additionally, in a Descendancy Narrative report the Stillborn event
> comes AFTER the Burial Event, even though the date is six days earlier.
>
> My question is how are others handling Stillborn births? Seems like it
would
> be better to just create a Subtype for the Birth event to generate the
> alternative sentence language. Is this how others are handling this?
>
> Paul
>
>
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> ==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
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> word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
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> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go
> to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
>
> ==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
> To join this list, send an email to with the
> word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
> and they will appear on this list.
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go
> to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
> ==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
> To join this list, send an email to with the
word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
and they will appear on this list.
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records,
go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
>
>


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