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Archiver > GENBOX > 2003-10 > 1066672657


From: "wim prange" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:57:37 +0200
In-Reply-To: <FFEBLNNBNENFDKOPJEBPCEKKEBAA.paulharris@nc.rr.com>


Hi Paul,

Don't know about regulations concerning stillborns and certificates in the
US but in the Netherlands, stillborns don't get a birth-certificate, they
are known only through death-cerficates. Also the stillborns in my family
didn't get a name. I've named with the common term "doodgeboren"
(=stillborn) and created a custom event for them (with class "death"). The
name of the child makes it obvious what has happened.
Fortunately, I don't have any experience with stillborns in my family in the
last couple of decades but I can imagine that nowadays, people want to give
a stillborn infant a name too. In that case I would give the child a suffix
title "stillborn" I suppose.

Gr. Wim

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
> Verzonden: maandag 20 oktober 2003 18:40
> Aan:
> Onderwerp: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Cheri,
>
> What you say about sentences is true in an Individual Narrative. You can
> make them say whatever you want. But in a Descendancy Narrative,
> a stillborn
> has no children, so they never get their 'OWN' paragraph where
> these custom
> sentences will generate. They will ONLY appear in a CHILD section of the
> report and there is currently NO WAY to make THAT SECTION of the
> report SAY
> they were stillborn. It may be minutia, but it is a unique situation that
> Genbox does not appear to handle eloquently at this time. <g>
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:59 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Paul -The IRS aside, I have several still birth situations but
> in all cases
> these children had death certificates. Now there is no logical
> way you can
> have a death certificate without first being born. <g> You can
> always just
> tweak the sentence to read as you wish or suppress the Birth
> sentence or the
> Death sentence and write a combined sentence in the Sentence field or the
> Note field, whichever.
>
> I don't fret too much over the minutia.
>
> CheriC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 5:40 AM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Cheri,
>
> The only problem with that system is the child was never really
> born, with a
> death event following. If you don't believe me, ask the IRS about
> taking an
> exemption for the child during the tax year of the stillbirth! They won't
> let you.
>
> So, what are the implications of dealing with this situation in various
> ways? You have illustrated one. But in a narrative it would generate, 'So
> and so, born on ..., died of stillborn on ...."
>
> I would also probably consider entering ONLY a Death event, subtype
> Stillborn, but again, I think we run into a problem on the Descendancy
> Narrative, which doesn't care about Subtypes on Birth and Death events. It
> just says, "So and so, born on ..., died on ....
>
> I'm afraid that the only way you could get that report to say
> 'stillborn on
> ...' is to have a specific Stillborn Event that is recognized by
> the report
> generator as a Birth/Death event, and substitutes the appropriate
> language.
>
> Perhaps I am missing something in the program design, or Bill has another
> way of dealing with this? I can't find anything in the online help
> addressing the issue.
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:38 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> Paul - I use the standard birth event and create a death event wherein the
> cause of death is "stillborn." I think Stillborn Event must have
> come over
> from your previous program; I'm not seeing it as a default Event.
>
> CheriC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul J. Harris [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 1:44 PM
> To:
> Subject: [GENBOX] Stillborn Issue in Reports
>
>
> I have used a Stillborn Event. The Event Template may be from Genbox or my
> import, I am not sure. At any rate, the template IS in the Birth Class.
> Apparently, this is only for grouping, as the date does not initiate a
> birth. Additionally, in a Descendancy Narrative report the Stillborn event
> comes AFTER the Burial Event, even though the date is six days earlier.
>
> My question is how are others handling Stillborn births? Seems
> like it would
> be better to just create a Subtype for the Birth event to generate the
> alternative sentence language. Is this how others are handling this?
>
> Paul
>
>
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>
>
> ==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
> To join this list, send an email to with the
> word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your messages to
> and they will appear on this list.
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
> records, go
> to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>
>
> ==== GENBOX Mailing List ====
> To join this list, send an email to
> with the word "subscribe" as the subject line. Then email your
> messages to and they will appear on this list.
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
> records, go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
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>



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