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Archiver > GENBOX > 2003-10 > 1065543147

From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Illegitimate children/nontraditional families in Genbox
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:12:45 -0700
In-Reply-To: <>

Phil - For unmarried couples I used the Marriage-Not event. Debbie Woolard
and I have both commented on the automatic assumption of a spousal
relationship when children involved. I am still optimistic that this will
be resolved. The assignment of Spouse 1, Spouse 2, etc. is normally based
on the marriage date. If you assign a Marriage-Not event with a date or
sort date, the relationships should sort correctly (you may have to compact
or change the focus to a different person and then come back for the changes
to be noticeable on screen).

Personally I would prefer that sentence generation required a variable or
variables before the spousal/parental text was triggered. That way your
default sentences could include the appropriate variables and in those
unusual circumstances you could omit the variables that would result in
appropriate sentences. These could include a variable when both parents are
known and/or separate variables for father and mother. The inclusion of the
"unknown" parent can go away as far as I am concerned. In particular the
tops of trees look plain silly with "unknown" "unknown" and I would prefer
to have nothing identified here.

Haven't played with the charts enough to tell you if there is a solution to
the second problem. CheriC

-----Original Message-----
From: C. Phillip Rhoton, MD [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:16 PM
Subject: [GENBOX] Illegitimate children/nontraditional families in

I have found several issues with how Genbox handles illegitimate
children/nontraditional families that I would like to bring to Bill's

1. Parental relationships
In the narrative reports two problems present with the sentence introducing
the list of children. In the first case where you have an illegitimate birth
and both parents are known the sentence reads "Child/Children of X and
his/her wife/husband Y." This occurs despite the fact that no marriage
event has been created between the two individuals. This is further
complicated when you have someone who had several children by individuals
with whom there was and wasn't a marital relationship. In this instance
every individual is identified as a spouse and do not sort appropriately.
I've not been able to determine how GenBox decides which individual is
Spouse # 1, 2, etc... when there aren't marriage events. I originally
assumed it was by order of entry but tonight I added an illegitimate child
to an ancestor with two marriages and the woman with whom he had the child
out of wedlock wound up being sorted as Spouse # 2. At any rate, the
sentence issue needs to be addressed in some manner, as it is very
misleading (not to mention just plain wrong). I would prefer the children
lists sort chronologically but in some cases this isn't possible, such as a
man having an extra marital affair resulting in child being born and then
having subsequent children with his wife. The only way I can think of to
get this to work it to create some form of marriage related event with a
sort date that would force the children from the affair to be listed after
the marital children (I'm assuming the sequencing of the children list is
based upon sorting of spouses). The question is what would this tag be
called and how would the sentence read?

The second case involves children where only the identity of the mother is
known. If the mother is never married this is not a problem but if she
marries then the illegitimate children list sorts first with the sentence
reading "Child/Children of Y and [--?--]" which is not a problem however the
sentence introducing the list of her children with her husband or husbands,
as the case may be, reads "Child/Children of Y and her SECOND husband X."
Again this is incorrect. X is not her second husband. He's her first
husband. This could be fixed by simply deleting the relationships mentioned
in the sentences so they read "Child/Children of X and Y."

2. Charts
When GenBox was first introduced several of us reported that in cases where
women had illegitimate children and subsequently married and had other
children, the illegitimate children did not display on the chart. This is
still occurring. This a particular thorny problem as it implies, albeit
unintentional, a stigma associated with these children not to mention the
fact that I have one particular line where all the individuals of one
surname in the community are descended from the illegitimate children of a
woman who subsequently married and had children by another surname. The
family reunion is coming up next summer and I can't create a chart
showingboth sets of children.

I hope I haven't been too long-winded and difficult to follow. It's late
and I'm just about ready to drop.


C. Phillip Rhoton, MD
3115 Tamarack Court #1032
Evansville, Indiana 47715
(812) 477-3247

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