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Archiver > GENBOX > 2003-03 > 1048107987

From: "Cheri Casper" <>
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Names & Other Stuff
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:06:49 -0800
In-Reply-To: <>

Wim - I guess that you and I have fundamental differences on Names. I do
not see that names *have to be tied* to sources nor do I see that they have
to be tied to Events. Names can be independent of either a source or an
Event and then linked back to one or both. I realize that I can use
Personal Knowledge as a source and I have on certain occasions. But I am
not about to flood my footnotes/endnotes with a bunch of PK sources just so
I can use an alternate name, nor would I want to. For me, then, this means
that I must hard code the name into the sentence if I want a given output in

For two or more sources with conflicting name info for the same event, I
don't see how you will ever get any sentences because it would require
either two names in the output or two sentences. You should have the option
to pick the one *that you prefer or that other evidence makes you believe is
the most accurate" WITHOUT having to suppress the conflict source. In other
words, you should be able to show all sources and yet determine which name
variant you wish to use for the Event sentences.


-----Original Message-----
From: wim prange [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Names & Other Stuff


I know exactly what you (and I) want but I, and I think Genbox too, have a
different opinion on how this should be accomplished: namevariations are not
tied to events: they are tied to the sources for that event.
Let me explain this with the following situation: When my ancestors married
while they lived in different places, there were two "marriage banns"
announced. In the 18th C. both banns have a note when and where the marriage
took place. This will lead to two "marriage bann" events and one "marriage"
event in my file, they were married only once ofcourse, not twice. For the
marriage-event I have both banns as the source.
Most likely, both banns have spelled the names completely different for the
people involved. In case of the "marriage bann" your solution of choosing a
namevariant for the event wouldn't pose a problem because there are two
events. In case of the marriage though it would be impossible, because there
are two, contemporary, sources for one event and both equally valid.

Another example are birth-events. For a lot of people in my file there isn't
any birth-record. There are christening-records, sometimes with the date of
birth. When they married there sometimes is more info for the birth ("born
raised at ...."). The birth-event becomes a reconstructed event from
sources for the date, the place, the general notes. Each with their own
variations for names ofcourse.

I suggest you wait untill Bill has 'fixed' or implemented this feature (as
has announced in some previous posting on this topic) before deciding you
something different. I'm still convinced that names belong to sources, and
individuals to events.
As I implied earlier: not only paperwork is a source, so is personal
knowledge. It has the same status as interviews with parents/grandparents
For future researchers you should (in my opinion) source this kind of info


[-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
[Van: Cheri Casper [mailto:]
[Verzonden: woensdag 19 maart 2003 17:57
[Onderwerp: RE: [GENBOX] Names & Other Stuff
[Wim - I think you are missing what many of us are trying to say. I don't
[want the Name Variations to necessarily be available in the Pick Dialog.
[want to be able to take a name variation and apply it to an Event and have
[the Sentence for that Event include the Name Variant. There is no current
[way to do that. If you Mark the name variant it will be used FOR ALL
[EVENTS. What many of us want is the ability to apply a name variant TO A
[There is a big difference in what you are describing and what many of us
[want. If you are unfamiliar with this concept, check out how this in done
[in TMG. You define as many names as you want for an individual, you
[whether those alternate names appear in the Pick List or not, AND you can
[select which name you want applied to a GIVEN EVENT so that the NAME IS
[-----Original Message-----
[From: wim prange [mailto:]
[Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:22 PM
[Subject: RE: [GENBOX] Names & Other Stuff
[ [ Wim - But this requires you to use a source & citation. What if
[ [ you don't
[ [ want to do so or don't have one? I have two aunts who were
[ [ *never* called
[ [ by their birth name. While I would like their birth name to show for
[ [ birth event, for all other events I would like to use the names they
[ [ by. Without a citation, I can't do that unless I hard type
[ [ their names into
[ [ the sentences structure directly but that isn't the best option.
[The beauty of Genbox is that you can define any name as the preferred name
[by which you want to identify somebody in Genbox (if you are good in
[you could even use only the SSN or a UID-nr for this purpose). The way I
[it is that these names are for your own, personal, use in Genbox itself,
[for reports etc. So if you want your "Aunt Bettie" listed as Aunt Bettie
[instead of Elisabeth Smith, just create that name, give it the "preferred"
[status and untick the preferred from her birthname. You could source this
[with a "Personal Knowledge" source, or not, if you don't want that.
[If you want her Birthname to appear on her birthevent then enter that name
[in that event on the citation-window (I suppose you've got a source for
[event, or otherwise use a generic "Personal Knowledge" source), use Aunt
[Bettie as the name for other events and wait untill Bill has fixed this
[reportfunction. From a reply to Claire on March 8 I got the impression
[it was allready fixed for the next update.
[I think this approach in Genbox is designed to use preferred names in
[so it is more easy to differentiate individuals in Picklists etc. If you
[have a lot of slightly similar or exactly the same names (and there are
[countles of these in my file) you can add an extra identifier name etc. If
[all the sourcenames would appear in a picklist too to select from, then
[would become almost impossible: you would have to take the IDnr for the
[individual ánd the namevariation into account. For a lot of 17th and 18th
[people I have more then a dozen sourcenames, some are just different
[phonetic spellings, others are completely different surnames because they
[moved to another farm, sometimes husbands went by their wifes 'surname'
[vice versa, etc.
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