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Archiver > GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES > 2007-03 > 1174400996


From: "Delilah" <>
Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:29:56 -0400
References: <032020071207.20363.45FFCE7600099B6200004F8B2215567074CFCFCFCD0D0EB20CB3@comcast.net>


who is getting them for you?
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:07 AM
Subject: Re:
[GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987


| Waiting on those clippings as we speak.
|
| -------------- Original message --------------
| From: "Delilah" <>
|
| > well if he signed the birth certificate, he has his name on it as the
father
| > and since it is a male, they don't usually change their names - and the
| > lesbian part has nothing to do with finding the person, so just skip
over
| > that, so what was Bruce's last name, and then get the baby DOB and find
the
| > newspaper that the story is in - you not going to get nothing from any
| > public utility because of the Patriot Act - I don't think the child went
for
| > adoption as since he *Bruce) was recognised as the biological father, he
| > would of had to consent - when was the baby born - when did the
| > murder/suicide take place and in what city - yall get those details and
you
| > can find the child
| > delilah
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From:
| > To:
| > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:39 PM
| > Subject: Re:
| > [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| >
| >
| > | His sister says Bruce signed the birth certificate. But in this day
and
| > age, even then, when things were changing in this area, she didn't have
to
| > give the child his last name, he was just glad to state he was the
father.
| > His sis says she was a Lesbian, this mystery woman, and I guess they
both
| > wanted a child, just didn't want each other, but obviously were good
enough
| > friends to go through this together. And I believe they did it together
| > because she tried to visit the family and wrote to them.
| > |
| > | Well, I called an AT& T laison, and got zip. Paper I guess would be
| > better. Bruce's mother and father took care of arrangments, and they
would
| > never have allowed her to be listed as family or survivors. Again,
according
| > to his sister, they changed their wills with the sole intention of
leaving
| > this kids out of any chance to inherit (again, why?? He's gone and no
one is
| > going to take his place? I'll never understand it).
| > |
| > | Nothing is impossible, she could have put the boy up for adoption, but
in
| > my heart, I doubt it.
| > |
| > | -------------- Original message --------------
| > | From: "Delilah"
| > |
| > | > Even if you don't know her name, you can run the date of birth and
the
| > | > baby's last name, I would assume she would of gave the 'real
fathers'
| > name
| > | > as the father, since she was not married - also I would get copies
of
| > those
| > | > newspaper aticles about the murder, suicide - as that is news and it
may
| > | > contain things unrelated to what actually happened, also the obit on
the
| > | > people that were killed or did suicide, then find the cemetery, find
out
| > who
| > | > paid for the funerals, who the survivors were, nobody is going to
tell
| > | > anybody anything at AT&T, they have changed hands so many times,
nobody
| > | > would remember who worked where, but if there is a person close
enough
| > to
| > | > get to a city directory for the time frame, then you would know who
| > worked
| > | > at AT&T, also all adoptions are legal things and take about 1 and
1/2
| > years
| > | > to complete - if she put the child up for adoption, the notice had
to be
| > put
| > | > in the legal section of the newspaper (not necessarily the closest
| > | > newspaper) and if she listed the father, then he had to sign away
his
| > | > parental rights for the baby to be legally adopted, if he did not
and
| > she
| > | > knew where he was, she could not have the child adopted - what state
| > were we
| > | > in, what are the adoption laws in the state and what are the laws
for
| > having
| > | > a child born out of wedlock legitimized so he can inherate just as a
| > normal
| > | > child would - the woman had to have been know by whoever lived at
the
| > place
| > | > where the murder/suicide took placxe - look for the newspapers - I
have
| > lost
| > | > the original post - if you want send the info again to just my
e-mail so
| > I
| > | > will have it - what are the adoption laws for the state now, in Al
prior
| > to
| > | > 1991 you could not get access to your original birth certificate, we
| > passed
| > | > the law and now all adult adoptees can get their original birth
| > | > certificates, which usually has their mothers name on it and
sometimes
| > the
| > | > fathers also. Adoption is becoming more open than it was back then.
Just
| > | > some thoughts!
| > | > delilah evans
| > | > ----- Original Message -----
| > | > From:
| > | > To:
| > | > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:24 PM
| > | > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]
| > | > BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | Would welcome any and all help. If we just knew her name. Still
| > waiting
| > | > for the newspaper archive to come through with some info.
| > | > |
| > | > | For myself, I can't understand why they didn't want to see the
baby.
| > They
| > | > treated her horribly. Many months after the funeral she wrote to
them
| > and
| > | > tried to get them to see him (the baby) but they refused to answer
and
| > told
| > | > their daughter they threw the letters away. It baffles me
personally.
| > She
| > | > obviously, in my mind, truly cared for Bruce, he was a good friend
and
| > they
| > | > had some arrangement to work out caring for thier son. I just hope
its
| > not
| > | > to late for them to make amends and for this young man to know his
| > father
| > | > cared a great deal and was very happy he was born.
| > | > |
| > | > | -------------- Original message --------------
| > | > | From: "Delilah"
| > | > |
| > | > | > If a woman has a baby and is not married, they will ask her for
the
| > | > fathers
| > | > | > name and they will put it on the birth certificate - now if she
is
| > | > married,
| > | > | > regardless of who the father is, they will put her husbands name
on
| > the
| > | > | > birth certificate - be glad to help with this as I used to do
| > adoption
| > | > | > searches.
| > | > | > delilah
| > | > | > ----- Original Message -----
| > | > | > From: "Ralph Bailey"
| > | > | > To:
| > | > | > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:45 PM
| > | > | > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
| > | > | > Kramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | This is obvious, but perhaps the father was named on the birth
| > | > certificate
| > | > | > | of the child.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I do not know the privacy laws in the state of birth or if a
| > search
| > | > can be
| > | > | > | done for just a father on the child's birth certificate, but
might
| > be
| > | > | > worth
| > | > | > | a try.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Ralph
| > | > | > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | > | > | From:
| > | > | > | To:
| > | > | > | Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:52 PM
| > | > | > | Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
| > Kramer-Hamilton/Cincinnati
| > | > | > | Ohio1956-1987
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Thank you Diana,
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Bruce's sister has contacted the newspaper, it was splashed
all
| > over
| > | > the
| > | > | > | front page and they made it out to be "tragic love triangle".
| > Which
| > | > wasn't
| > | > | > | the case at all. He hardly knew the woman. They are also
suppose
| > to be
| > | > | > | checking the birth announcements. I guess now they don't list
the
| > | > parents
| > | > | > | names in the paper, but back in the 80s they still were. So
I'm
| > really
| > | > | > | hoping that bears up something.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I already suggested that they search apartment building
records
| > and
| > | > | > | utilities, but found out they did not co-hab. I'm a researcher
| > myself,
| > | > so
| > | > | > I
| > | > | > | came up with some of the usual ideas, but with their not
living
| > | > together
| > | > | > its
| > | > | > | tough.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I placed the notice on this board as well as a few others
hoping
| > that
| > | > | > maybe
| > | > | > | one day the young man might go searching on his own. Or a
friend
| > that
| > | > knew
| > | > | > | Bruce might happen along. I'm been picking his sisters
memories,
| > but
| > | > they
| > | > | > | had been living in seperate states for a few years, all of
them,
| > and
| > | > just
| > | > | > | were not aware of his friends and what he did other than work.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | -------------- Original message --------------
| > | > | > | From: Diana Ellison
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > A couple of ideas come to mind that you might research if
you
| > | > haven't
| > | > | > | > already
| > | > | > | > done so. Check with the main library of the town this
| > unfortunate
| > | > event
| > | > | > | > happened in to see if there was a newspaper article that
might
| > have
| > | > been
| > | > | > | > printed
| > | > | > | > that might contain her name. Also check with the library to
see
| > if
| > | > they
| > | > | > | > had a
| > | > | > | > city directory of the time. I would assume there would have
been
| > a
| > | > | > police
| > | > | > | > report, so perhaps some kind hearted person at the police
| > department
| > | > | > would
| > | > | > | > be
| > | > | > | > able to look at the files and give you the name of the lady.
| > | > Apparently
| > | > | > | > they
| > | > | > | > were renting and if the building is still standing perhaps a
| > search
| > | > of
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > | > real
| > | > | > | > estate records would reveal who owned the building and they
| > might
| > | > have a
| > | > | > | > record
| > | > | > | > of who Bruce was living with. If the building is still
standing,
| > | > perhaps
| > | > | > | > there
| > | > | > | > are still people living there who would remember.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Just some thoughts. Hopefully one will be helpful.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Diana
| > | > | > | > Reno, NV
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > wrote:
| > | > | > | > Hello all,
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > The above mentioned person, Bruce Kramer, was the brother of
a
| > | > friend of
| > | > | > | > mine.
| > | > | > | > Bruce died at a young age, shot and killed while changing
the
| > door
| > | > lock
| > | > | > of
| > | > | > | > an
| > | > | > | > upstairs neighbor by an abusive spouse, who then killed his
| > wife,
| > | > then
| > | > | > | > himself.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Bruce had a child, a son, born just a few months before his
| > death.
| > | > To
| > | > | > his
| > | > | > | > sister
| > | > | > | > Ilene's knowledge, they were not a couple, but good friends.
| > Bruce
| > | > was
| > | > | > | > also very
| > | > | > | > excited to be a father. It is unfortuante that Bruce's
family
| > was so
| > | > | > | > distraught
| > | > | > | > at the time of his death that they did not accord this woman
any
| > | > | > comfort.
| > | > | > | > The
| > | > | > | > only time the family saw the baby was when she brought her
son
| > with
| > | > her
| > | > | > to
| > | > | > | > the
| > | > | > | > cemetary, and they turned her away.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Bruce's parents were Jewish and old fashioned. They were
upset
| > that,
| > | > in
| > | > | > | > their
| > | > | > | > minds, the child was not born into a loving relationship. It
was
| > | > hard
| > | > | > for
| > | > | > | > them
| > | > | > | > to see past this arrangement that was made between Bruce and
| > this
| > | > woman,
| > | > | > | > whom
| > | > | > | > they were told was Lesbian. I hate saying "her" or "this
woman"
| > but
| > | > | > Ilene
| > | > | > | > and
| > | > | > | > her brothers don't know her name. She tried in vain to write
to
| > | > Bruce's
| > | > | > | > parents,
| > | > | > | > but they threw the letters away, and refused to talk about
it
| > with
| > | > the
| > | > | > | > other
| > | > | > | > remaining children.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Bruce's siblings would like to meet with this young man who
| > should
| > | > be 21
| > | > | > | > or
| > | > | > | > close to adult age by this writing (March 18, 2007). Try to
make
| > up
| > | > for
| > | > | > | > the
| > | > | > | > sadness and grief that was caused so long ago. We have
nothing
| > to go
| > | > on
| > | > | > | > about
| > | > | > | > who she was or where they met or even what the child was
called.
| > | > Bruce
| > | > | > | > worked
| > | > | > | > for AT&T in Cincinnati at the time of his death. He died in
the
| > | > spring
| > | > | > of
| > | > | > | > 1987,
| > | > | > | > approx. 30-31 years of age.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > If this story is familiar to anyone, can help us find Bruce
| > Kramer's
| > | > son
| > | > | > | > and his
| > | > | > | > mother we would appreciate it very much and they can reach
them
| > | > through
| > | > | > me
| > | > | > | > at
| > | > | > | > this address.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > D. Leonard
| > | > | > | >
| > | >
________________________________________________________________________
| > | > | > | > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
| > what's
| > | > free
| > | > | > | > from AOL
| > | > | > | > at AOL.com.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > -------------------------------
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| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Hugs,
| > | > | > | > Diana
| > | > | > | > Michael's Reno
| > | > | > | >
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Date:
| > | > 3/17/2007
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