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Archiver > GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES > 2007-03 > 1174392438


From:
Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:07:18 +0000


Waiting on those clippings as we speak.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Delilah" <>

> well if he signed the birth certificate, he has his name on it as the father
> and since it is a male, they don't usually change their names - and the
> lesbian part has nothing to do with finding the person, so just skip over
> that, so what was Bruce's last name, and then get the baby DOB and find the
> newspaper that the story is in - you not going to get nothing from any
> public utility because of the Patriot Act - I don't think the child went for
> adoption as since he *Bruce) was recognised as the biological father, he
> would of had to consent - when was the baby born - when did the
> murder/suicide take place and in what city - yall get those details and you
> can find the child
> delilah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re:
> [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
>
>
> | His sister says Bruce signed the birth certificate. But in this day and
> age, even then, when things were changing in this area, she didn't have to
> give the child his last name, he was just glad to state he was the father.
> His sis says she was a Lesbian, this mystery woman, and I guess they both
> wanted a child, just didn't want each other, but obviously were good enough
> friends to go through this together. And I believe they did it together
> because she tried to visit the family and wrote to them.
> |
> | Well, I called an AT& T laison, and got zip. Paper I guess would be
> better. Bruce's mother and father took care of arrangments, and they would
> never have allowed her to be listed as family or survivors. Again, according
> to his sister, they changed their wills with the sole intention of leaving
> this kids out of any chance to inherit (again, why?? He's gone and no one is
> going to take his place? I'll never understand it).
> |
> | Nothing is impossible, she could have put the boy up for adoption, but in
> my heart, I doubt it.
> |
> | -------------- Original message --------------
> | From: "Delilah"
> |
> | > Even if you don't know her name, you can run the date of birth and the
> | > baby's last name, I would assume she would of gave the 'real fathers'
> name
> | > as the father, since she was not married - also I would get copies of
> those
> | > newspaper aticles about the murder, suicide - as that is news and it may
> | > contain things unrelated to what actually happened, also the obit on the
> | > people that were killed or did suicide, then find the cemetery, find out
> who
> | > paid for the funerals, who the survivors were, nobody is going to tell
> | > anybody anything at AT&T, they have changed hands so many times, nobody
> | > would remember who worked where, but if there is a person close enough
> to
> | > get to a city directory for the time frame, then you would know who
> worked
> | > at AT&T, also all adoptions are legal things and take about 1 and 1/2
> years
> | > to complete - if she put the child up for adoption, the notice had to be
> put
> | > in the legal section of the newspaper (not necessarily the closest
> | > newspaper) and if she listed the father, then he had to sign away his
> | > parental rights for the baby to be legally adopted, if he did not and
> she
> | > knew where he was, she could not have the child adopted - what state
> were we
> | > in, what are the adoption laws in the state and what are the laws for
> having
> | > a child born out of wedlock legitimized so he can inherate just as a
> normal
> | > child would - the woman had to have been know by whoever lived at the
> place
> | > where the murder/suicide took placxe - look for the newspapers - I have
> lost
> | > the original post - if you want send the info again to just my e-mail so
> I
> | > will have it - what are the adoption laws for the state now, in Al prior
> to
> | > 1991 you could not get access to your original birth certificate, we
> passed
> | > the law and now all adult adoptees can get their original birth
> | > certificates, which usually has their mothers name on it and sometimes
> the
> | > fathers also. Adoption is becoming more open than it was back then. Just
> | > some thoughts!
> | > delilah evans
> | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > From:
> | > To:
> | > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:24 PM
> | > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]
> | > BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
> | >
> | >
> | > | Would welcome any and all help. If we just knew her name. Still
> waiting
> | > for the newspaper archive to come through with some info.
> | > |
> | > | For myself, I can't understand why they didn't want to see the baby.
> They
> | > treated her horribly. Many months after the funeral she wrote to them
> and
> | > tried to get them to see him (the baby) but they refused to answer and
> told
> | > their daughter they threw the letters away. It baffles me personally.
> She
> | > obviously, in my mind, truly cared for Bruce, he was a good friend and
> they
> | > had some arrangement to work out caring for thier son. I just hope its
> not
> | > to late for them to make amends and for this young man to know his
> father
> | > cared a great deal and was very happy he was born.
> | > |
> | > | -------------- Original message --------------
> | > | From: "Delilah"
> | > |
> | > | > If a woman has a baby and is not married, they will ask her for the
> | > fathers
> | > | > name and they will put it on the birth certificate - now if she is
> | > married,
> | > | > regardless of who the father is, they will put her husbands name on
> the
> | > | > birth certificate - be glad to help with this as I used to do
> adoption
> | > | > searches.
> | > | > delilah
> | > | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > | > From: "Ralph Bailey"
> | > | > To:
> | > | > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:45 PM
> | > | > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
> | > | > Kramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | > | This is obvious, but perhaps the father was named on the birth
> | > certificate
> | > | > | of the child.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | I do not know the privacy laws in the state of birth or if a
> search
> | > can be
> | > | > | done for just a father on the child's birth certificate, but might
> be
> | > | > worth
> | > | > | a try.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | Ralph
> | > | > | ----- Original Message -----
> | > | > | From:
> | > | > | To:
> | > | > | Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:52 PM
> | > | > | Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
> Kramer-Hamilton/Cincinnati
> | > | > | Ohio1956-1987
> | > | > |
> | > | > |
> | > | > | Thank you Diana,
> | > | > |
> | > | > | Bruce's sister has contacted the newspaper, it was splashed all
> over
> | > the
> | > | > | front page and they made it out to be "tragic love triangle".
> Which
> | > wasn't
> | > | > | the case at all. He hardly knew the woman. They are also suppose
> to be
> | > | > | checking the birth announcements. I guess now they don't list the
> | > parents
> | > | > | names in the paper, but back in the 80s they still were. So I'm
> really
> | > | > | hoping that bears up something.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | I already suggested that they search apartment building records
> and
> | > | > | utilities, but found out they did not co-hab. I'm a researcher
> myself,
> | > so
> | > | > I
> | > | > | came up with some of the usual ideas, but with their not living
> | > together
> | > | > its
> | > | > | tough.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | I placed the notice on this board as well as a few others hoping
> that
> | > | > maybe
> | > | > | one day the young man might go searching on his own. Or a friend
> that
> | > knew
> | > | > | Bruce might happen along. I'm been picking his sisters memories,
> but
> | > they
> | > | > | had been living in seperate states for a few years, all of them,
> and
> | > just
> | > | > | were not aware of his friends and what he did other than work.
> | > | > |
> | > | > | -------------- Original message --------------
> | > | > | From: Diana Ellison
> | > | > |
> | > | > | > A couple of ideas come to mind that you might research if you
> | > haven't
> | > | > | > already
> | > | > | > done so. Check with the main library of the town this
> unfortunate
> | > event
> | > | > | > happened in to see if there was a newspaper article that might
> have
> | > been
> | > | > | > printed
> | > | > | > that might contain her name. Also check with the library to see
> if
> | > they
> | > | > | > had a
> | > | > | > city directory of the time. I would assume there would have been
> a
> | > | > police
> | > | > | > report, so perhaps some kind hearted person at the police
> department
> | > | > would
> | > | > | > be
> | > | > | > able to look at the files and give you the name of the lady.
> | > Apparently
> | > | > | > they
> | > | > | > were renting and if the building is still standing perhaps a
> search
> | > of
> | > | > the
> | > | > | > real
> | > | > | > estate records would reveal who owned the building and they
> might
> | > have a
> | > | > | > record
> | > | > | > of who Bruce was living with. If the building is still standing,
> | > perhaps
> | > | > | > there
> | > | > | > are still people living there who would remember.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Just some thoughts. Hopefully one will be helpful.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Diana
> | > | > | > Reno, NV
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > wrote:
> | > | > | > Hello all,
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > The above mentioned person, Bruce Kramer, was the brother of a
> | > friend of
> | > | > | > mine.
> | > | > | > Bruce died at a young age, shot and killed while changing the
> door
> | > lock
> | > | > of
> | > | > | > an
> | > | > | > upstairs neighbor by an abusive spouse, who then killed his
> wife,
> | > then
> | > | > | > himself.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Bruce had a child, a son, born just a few months before his
> death.
> | > To
> | > | > his
> | > | > | > sister
> | > | > | > Ilene's knowledge, they were not a couple, but good friends.
> Bruce
> | > was
> | > | > | > also very
> | > | > | > excited to be a father. It is unfortuante that Bruce's family
> was so
> | > | > | > distraught
> | > | > | > at the time of his death that they did not accord this woman any
> | > | > comfort.
> | > | > | > The
> | > | > | > only time the family saw the baby was when she brought her son
> with
> | > her
> | > | > to
> | > | > | > the
> | > | > | > cemetary, and they turned her away.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Bruce's parents were Jewish and old fashioned. They were upset
> that,
> | > in
> | > | > | > their
> | > | > | > minds, the child was not born into a loving relationship. It was
> | > hard
> | > | > for
> | > | > | > them
> | > | > | > to see past this arrangement that was made between Bruce and
> this
> | > woman,
> | > | > | > whom
> | > | > | > they were told was Lesbian. I hate saying "her" or "this woman"
> but
> | > | > Ilene
> | > | > | > and
> | > | > | > her brothers don't know her name. She tried in vain to write to
> | > Bruce's
> | > | > | > parents,
> | > | > | > but they threw the letters away, and refused to talk about it
> with
> | > the
> | > | > | > other
> | > | > | > remaining children.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Bruce's siblings would like to meet with this young man who
> should
> | > be 21
> | > | > | > or
> | > | > | > close to adult age by this writing (March 18, 2007). Try to make
> up
> | > for
> | > | > | > the
> | > | > | > sadness and grief that was caused so long ago. We have nothing
> to go
> | > on
> | > | > | > about
> | > | > | > who she was or where they met or even what the child was called.
> | > Bruce
> | > | > | > worked
> | > | > | > for AT&T in Cincinnati at the time of his death. He died in the
> | > spring
> | > | > of
> | > | > | > 1987,
> | > | > | > approx. 30-31 years of age.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > If this story is familiar to anyone, can help us find Bruce
> Kramer's
> | > son
> | > | > | > and his
> | > | > | > mother we would appreciate it very much and they can reach them
> | > through
> | > | > me
> | > | > | > at
> | > | > | > this address.
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > D. Leonard
> | > | > | >
> | > ________________________________________________________________________
> | > | > | > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
> what's
> | > free
> | > | > | > from AOL
> | > | > | > at AOL.com.
> | > | > | >
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> | > | > | >
> | > | > | >
> | > | > | > Hugs,
> | > | > | > Diana
> | > | > | > Michael's Reno
> | > | > | >
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> | > 3/17/2007
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