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Archiver > GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES > 2007-03 > 1174388744


From: "John Monk" <>
Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 22:05:44 +1100
In-Reply-To: <010b01c76a83$2cbccfe0$15849804@delilahs>


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-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:]On Behalf Of Delilah
Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2007 11:03 AM
To:
Subject: Re:
[GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
Importance: High


Even if you don't know her name, you can run the date of birth and the
baby's last name, I would assume she would of gave the 'real fathers' name
as the father, since she was not married - also I would get copies of those
newspaper aticles about the murder, suicide - as that is news and it may
contain things unrelated to what actually happened, also the obit on the
people that were killed or did suicide, then find the cemetery, find out who
paid for the funerals, who the survivors were, nobody is going to tell
anybody anything at AT&T, they have changed hands so many times, nobody
would remember who worked where, but if there is a person close enough to
get to a city directory for the time frame, then you would know who worked
at AT&T, also all adoptions are legal things and take about 1 and 1/2 years
to complete - if she put the child up for adoption, the notice had to be put
in the legal section of the newspaper (not necessarily the closest
newspaper) and if she listed the father, then he had to sign away his
parental rights for the baby to be legally adopted, if he did not and she
knew where he was, she could not have the child adopted - what state were we
in, what are the adoption laws in the state and what are the laws for having
a child born out of wedlock legitimized so he can inherate just as a normal
child would - the woman had to have been know by whoever lived at the place
where the murder/suicide took placxe - look for the newspapers - I have lost
the original post - if you want send the info again to just my e-mail so I
will have it - what are the adoption laws for the state now, in Al prior to
1991 you could not get access to your original birth certificate, we passed
the law and now all adult adoptees can get their original birth
certificates, which usually has their mothers name on it and sometimes the
fathers also. Adoption is becoming more open than it was back then. Just
some thoughts!
delilah evans
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]
BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987


| Would welcome any and all help. If we just knew her name. Still waiting
for the newspaper archive to come through with some info.
|
| For myself, I can't understand why they didn't want to see the baby. They
treated her horribly. Many months after the funeral she wrote to them and
tried to get them to see him (the baby) but they refused to answer and told
their daughter they threw the letters away. It baffles me personally. She
obviously, in my mind, truly cared for Bruce, he was a good friend and they
had some arrangement to work out caring for thier son. I just hope its not
to late for them to make amends and for this young man to know his father
cared a great deal and was very happy he was born.
|
| -------------- Original message --------------
| From: "Delilah" <>
|
| > If a woman has a baby and is not married, they will ask her for the
fathers
| > name and they will put it on the birth certificate - now if she is
married,
| > regardless of who the father is, they will put her husbands name on the
| > birth certificate - be glad to help with this as I used to do adoption
| > searches.
| > delilah
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Ralph Bailey"
| > To:
| > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:45 PM
| > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
| > Kramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| >
| >
| > | This is obvious, but perhaps the father was named on the birth
certificate
| > | of the child.
| > |
| > | I do not know the privacy laws in the state of birth or if a search
can be
| > | done for just a father on the child's birth certificate, but might be
| > worth
| > | a try.
| > |
| > | Ralph
| > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | From:
| > | To:
| > | Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:52 PM
| > | Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce Kramer-Hamilton/Cincinnati
| > | Ohio1956-1987
| > |
| > |
| > | Thank you Diana,
| > |
| > | Bruce's sister has contacted the newspaper, it was splashed all over
the
| > | front page and they made it out to be "tragic love triangle". Which
wasn't
| > | the case at all. He hardly knew the woman. They are also suppose to be
| > | checking the birth announcements. I guess now they don't list the
parents
| > | names in the paper, but back in the 80s they still were. So I'm really
| > | hoping that bears up something.
| > |
| > | I already suggested that they search apartment building records and
| > | utilities, but found out they did not co-hab. I'm a researcher myself,
so
| > I
| > | came up with some of the usual ideas, but with their not living
together
| > its
| > | tough.
| > |
| > | I placed the notice on this board as well as a few others hoping that
| > maybe
| > | one day the young man might go searching on his own. Or a friend that
knew
| > | Bruce might happen along. I'm been picking his sisters memories, but
they
| > | had been living in seperate states for a few years, all of them, and
just
| > | were not aware of his friends and what he did other than work.
| > |
| > | -------------- Original message --------------
| > | From: Diana Ellison
| > |
| > | > A couple of ideas come to mind that you might research if you
haven't
| > | > already
| > | > done so. Check with the main library of the town this unfortunate
event
| > | > happened in to see if there was a newspaper article that might have
been
| > | > printed
| > | > that might contain her name. Also check with the library to see if
they
| > | > had a
| > | > city directory of the time. I would assume there would have been a
| > police
| > | > report, so perhaps some kind hearted person at the police department
| > would
| > | > be
| > | > able to look at the files and give you the name of the lady.
Apparently
| > | > they
| > | > were renting and if the building is still standing perhaps a search
of
| > the
| > | > real
| > | > estate records would reveal who owned the building and they might
have a
| > | > record
| > | > of who Bruce was living with. If the building is still standing,
perhaps
| > | > there
| > | > are still people living there who would remember.
| > | >
| > | > Just some thoughts. Hopefully one will be helpful.
| > | >
| > | > Diana
| > | > Reno, NV
| > | >
| > | > wrote:
| > | > Hello all,
| > | >
| > | > The above mentioned person, Bruce Kramer, was the brother of a
friend of
| > | > mine.
| > | > Bruce died at a young age, shot and killed while changing the door
lock
| > of
| > | > an
| > | > upstairs neighbor by an abusive spouse, who then killed his wife,
then
| > | > himself.
| > | >
| > | > Bruce had a child, a son, born just a few months before his death.
To
| > his
| > | > sister
| > | > Ilene's knowledge, they were not a couple, but good friends. Bruce
was
| > | > also very
| > | > excited to be a father. It is unfortuante that Bruce's family was so
| > | > distraught
| > | > at the time of his death that they did not accord this woman any
| > comfort.
| > | > The
| > | > only time the family saw the baby was when she brought her son with
her
| > to
| > | > the
| > | > cemetary, and they turned her away.
| > | >
| > | > Bruce's parents were Jewish and old fashioned. They were upset that,
in
| > | > their
| > | > minds, the child was not born into a loving relationship. It was
hard
| > for
| > | > them
| > | > to see past this arrangement that was made between Bruce and this
woman,
| > | > whom
| > | > they were told was Lesbian. I hate saying "her" or "this woman" but
| > Ilene
| > | > and
| > | > her brothers don't know her name. She tried in vain to write to
Bruce's
| > | > parents,
| > | > but they threw the letters away, and refused to talk about it with
the
| > | > other
| > | > remaining children.
| > | >
| > | > Bruce's siblings would like to meet with this young man who should
be 21
| > | > or
| > | > close to adult age by this writing (March 18, 2007). Try to make up
for
| > | > the
| > | > sadness and grief that was caused so long ago. We have nothing to go
on
| > | > about
| > | > who she was or where they met or even what the child was called.
Bruce
| > | > worked
| > | > for AT&T in Cincinnati at the time of his death. He died in the
spring
| > of
| > | > 1987,
| > | > approx. 30-31 years of age.
| > | >
| > | > If this story is familiar to anyone, can help us find Bruce Kramer's
son
| > | > and his
| > | > mother we would appreciate it very much and they can reach them
through
| > me
| > | > at
| > | > this address.
| > | >
| > | > D. Leonard
| > | >
________________________________________________________________________
| > | > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
free
| > | > from AOL
| > | > at AOL.com.
| > | >
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| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Hugs,
| > | > Diana
| > | > Michael's Reno
| > | >
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