GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES-L Archives
Archiver > GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES > 2007-03 > 1174356943
From: "Delilah" <>
Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:15:43 -0400
References: <032020070039.12797.45FF2D2800035D0A000031FD2216549976CFCFCFCD0D0EB20CB3@comcast.net>
well if he signed the birth certificate, he has his name on it as the father
and since it is a male, they don't usually change their names - and the
lesbian part has nothing to do with finding the person, so just skip over
that, so what was Bruce's last name, and then get the baby DOB and find the
newspaper that the story is in - you not going to get nothing from any
public utility because of the Patriot Act - I don't think the child went for
adoption as since he *Bruce) was recognised as the biological father, he
would of had to consent - when was the baby born - when did the
murder/suicide take place and in what city - yall get those details and you
can find the child
delilah
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 8:39 PM
Subject: Re:
[GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| His sister says Bruce signed the birth certificate. But in this day and
age, even then, when things were changing in this area, she didn't have to
give the child his last name, he was just glad to state he was the father.
His sis says she was a Lesbian, this mystery woman, and I guess they both
wanted a child, just didn't want each other, but obviously were good enough
friends to go through this together. And I believe they did it together
because she tried to visit the family and wrote to them.
|
| Well, I called an AT& T laison, and got zip. Paper I guess would be
better. Bruce's mother and father took care of arrangments, and they would
never have allowed her to be listed as family or survivors. Again, according
to his sister, they changed their wills with the sole intention of leaving
this kids out of any chance to inherit (again, why?? He's gone and no one is
going to take his place? I'll never understand it).
|
| Nothing is impossible, she could have put the boy up for adoption, but in
my heart, I doubt it.
|
| -------------- Original message --------------
| From: "Delilah" <>
|
| > Even if you don't know her name, you can run the date of birth and the
| > baby's last name, I would assume she would of gave the 'real fathers'
name
| > as the father, since she was not married - also I would get copies of
those
| > newspaper aticles about the murder, suicide - as that is news and it may
| > contain things unrelated to what actually happened, also the obit on the
| > people that were killed or did suicide, then find the cemetery, find out
who
| > paid for the funerals, who the survivors were, nobody is going to tell
| > anybody anything at AT&T, they have changed hands so many times, nobody
| > would remember who worked where, but if there is a person close enough
to
| > get to a city directory for the time frame, then you would know who
worked
| > at AT&T, also all adoptions are legal things and take about 1 and 1/2
years
| > to complete - if she put the child up for adoption, the notice had to be
put
| > in the legal section of the newspaper (not necessarily the closest
| > newspaper) and if she listed the father, then he had to sign away his
| > parental rights for the baby to be legally adopted, if he did not and
she
| > knew where he was, she could not have the child adopted - what state
were we
| > in, what are the adoption laws in the state and what are the laws for
having
| > a child born out of wedlock legitimized so he can inherate just as a
normal
| > child would - the woman had to have been know by whoever lived at the
place
| > where the murder/suicide took placxe - look for the newspapers - I have
lost
| > the original post - if you want send the info again to just my e-mail so
I
| > will have it - what are the adoption laws for the state now, in Al prior
to
| > 1991 you could not get access to your original birth certificate, we
passed
| > the law and now all adult adoptees can get their original birth
| > certificates, which usually has their mothers name on it and sometimes
the
| > fathers also. Adoption is becoming more open than it was back then. Just
| > some thoughts!
| > delilah evans
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From:
| > To:
| > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:24 PM
| > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES]
| > BruceKramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| >
| >
| > | Would welcome any and all help. If we just knew her name. Still
waiting
| > for the newspaper archive to come through with some info.
| > |
| > | For myself, I can't understand why they didn't want to see the baby.
They
| > treated her horribly. Many months after the funeral she wrote to them
and
| > tried to get them to see him (the baby) but they refused to answer and
told
| > their daughter they threw the letters away. It baffles me personally.
She
| > obviously, in my mind, truly cared for Bruce, he was a good friend and
they
| > had some arrangement to work out caring for thier son. I just hope its
not
| > to late for them to make amends and for this young man to know his
father
| > cared a great deal and was very happy he was born.
| > |
| > | -------------- Original message --------------
| > | From: "Delilah"
| > |
| > | > If a woman has a baby and is not married, they will ask her for the
| > fathers
| > | > name and they will put it on the birth certificate - now if she is
| > married,
| > | > regardless of who the father is, they will put her husbands name on
the
| > | > birth certificate - be glad to help with this as I used to do
adoption
| > | > searches.
| > | > delilah
| > | > ----- Original Message -----
| > | > From: "Ralph Bailey"
| > | > To:
| > | > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 10:45 PM
| > | > Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
| > | > Kramer-Hamilton/CincinnatiOhio1956-1987
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | This is obvious, but perhaps the father was named on the birth
| > certificate
| > | > | of the child.
| > | > |
| > | > | I do not know the privacy laws in the state of birth or if a
search
| > can be
| > | > | done for just a father on the child's birth certificate, but might
be
| > | > worth
| > | > | a try.
| > | > |
| > | > | Ralph
| > | > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | > | From:
| > | > | To:
| > | > | Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:52 PM
| > | > | Subject: Re: [GEN-UNSOLVED-MYSTERIES] Bruce
Kramer-Hamilton/Cincinnati
| > | > | Ohio1956-1987
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | Thank you Diana,
| > | > |
| > | > | Bruce's sister has contacted the newspaper, it was splashed all
over
| > the
| > | > | front page and they made it out to be "tragic love triangle".
Which
| > wasn't
| > | > | the case at all. He hardly knew the woman. They are also suppose
to be
| > | > | checking the birth announcements. I guess now they don't list the
| > parents
| > | > | names in the paper, but back in the 80s they still were. So I'm
really
| > | > | hoping that bears up something.
| > | > |
| > | > | I already suggested that they search apartment building records
and
| > | > | utilities, but found out they did not co-hab. I'm a researcher
myself,
| > so
| > | > I
| > | > | came up with some of the usual ideas, but with their not living
| > together
| > | > its
| > | > | tough.
| > | > |
| > | > | I placed the notice on this board as well as a few others hoping
that
| > | > maybe
| > | > | one day the young man might go searching on his own. Or a friend
that
| > knew
| > | > | Bruce might happen along. I'm been picking his sisters memories,
but
| > they
| > | > | had been living in seperate states for a few years, all of them,
and
| > just
| > | > | were not aware of his friends and what he did other than work.
| > | > |
| > | > | -------------- Original message --------------
| > | > | From: Diana Ellison
| > | > |
| > | > | > A couple of ideas come to mind that you might research if you
| > haven't
| > | > | > already
| > | > | > done so. Check with the main library of the town this
unfortunate
| > event
| > | > | > happened in to see if there was a newspaper article that might
have
| > been
| > | > | > printed
| > | > | > that might contain her name. Also check with the library to see
if
| > they
| > | > | > had a
| > | > | > city directory of the time. I would assume there would have been
a
| > | > police
| > | > | > report, so perhaps some kind hearted person at the police
department
| > | > would
| > | > | > be
| > | > | > able to look at the files and give you the name of the lady.
| > Apparently
| > | > | > they
| > | > | > were renting and if the building is still standing perhaps a
search
| > of
| > | > the
| > | > | > real
| > | > | > estate records would reveal who owned the building and they
might
| > have a
| > | > | > record
| > | > | > of who Bruce was living with. If the building is still standing,
| > perhaps
| > | > | > there
| > | > | > are still people living there who would remember.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Just some thoughts. Hopefully one will be helpful.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Diana
| > | > | > Reno, NV
| > | > | >
| > | > | > wrote:
| > | > | > Hello all,
| > | > | >
| > | > | > The above mentioned person, Bruce Kramer, was the brother of a
| > friend of
| > | > | > mine.
| > | > | > Bruce died at a young age, shot and killed while changing the
door
| > lock
| > | > of
| > | > | > an
| > | > | > upstairs neighbor by an abusive spouse, who then killed his
wife,
| > then
| > | > | > himself.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Bruce had a child, a son, born just a few months before his
death.
| > To
| > | > his
| > | > | > sister
| > | > | > Ilene's knowledge, they were not a couple, but good friends.
Bruce
| > was
| > | > | > also very
| > | > | > excited to be a father. It is unfortuante that Bruce's family
was so
| > | > | > distraught
| > | > | > at the time of his death that they did not accord this woman any
| > | > comfort.
| > | > | > The
| > | > | > only time the family saw the baby was when she brought her son
with
| > her
| > | > to
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > cemetary, and they turned her away.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Bruce's parents were Jewish and old fashioned. They were upset
that,
| > in
| > | > | > their
| > | > | > minds, the child was not born into a loving relationship. It was
| > hard
| > | > for
| > | > | > them
| > | > | > to see past this arrangement that was made between Bruce and
this
| > woman,
| > | > | > whom
| > | > | > they were told was Lesbian. I hate saying "her" or "this woman"
but
| > | > Ilene
| > | > | > and
| > | > | > her brothers don't know her name. She tried in vain to write to
| > Bruce's
| > | > | > parents,
| > | > | > but they threw the letters away, and refused to talk about it
with
| > the
| > | > | > other
| > | > | > remaining children.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Bruce's siblings would like to meet with this young man who
should
| > be 21
| > | > | > or
| > | > | > close to adult age by this writing (March 18, 2007). Try to make
up
| > for
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > sadness and grief that was caused so long ago. We have nothing
to go
| > on
| > | > | > about
| > | > | > who she was or where they met or even what the child was called.
| > Bruce
| > | > | > worked
| > | > | > for AT&T in Cincinnati at the time of his death. He died in the
| > spring
| > | > of
| > | > | > 1987,
| > | > | > approx. 30-31 years of age.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > If this story is familiar to anyone, can help us find Bruce
Kramer's
| > son
| > | > | > and his
| > | > | > mother we would appreciate it very much and they can reach them
| > through
| > | > me
| > | > | > at
| > | > | > this address.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > D. Leonard
| > | > | >
| > ________________________________________________________________________
| > | > | > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
what's
| > free
| > | > | > from AOL
| > | > | > at AOL.com.
| > | > | >
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| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Hugs,
| > | > | > Diana
| > | > | > Michael's Reno
| > | > | >
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