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From: "Dora Smith" <>
Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:25:36 -0600
References: <989867030.5749891262134220176.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>


I think that it was Norse people who owned Patrick and the sheep, in
Ireland, but I'm not sure. Patrick was a Romano-British lad from Britain.

Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX


----- Original Message -----
From: "donkelly" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep


> Well true of course, but not 100%.
>
> Remember that Saint Patrick was a shepherd in Down/Antrim before he went
> to England, also before he returned to Ireland and became a saint. And
> over in Scotland there was the famous Shepherd Poet of the borders. There
> were plenty of sheep for sure, but lots more a hundred years later.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barry Bradfield <>
> To:
> Sent: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:35:44 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
>
> Hi,
> As regards the sheep and the reivers etc in Ireland I'm reasonably sure
> that
> sheep were not a major flock in Ulster in the 17th and 18th century. The
> woolen industry was not a major industry. In the very late 1700's (c1790)
> an
> O'Donnell of Larkfield outside Manorhamilton brought over from Scotland a
> Campbell family of shepherds to help introduce sheep into the mountains
> between Leitrim and Fermanagh. There was nobody in Leitrim /Fermanagh with
> shepherding skills. Prior to that it was the cow which roamed and fed on
> these mountains.In addition the native Irish of these areas had little
> interest in sheep.
> In Pigots directory 1824 which is available on line you will find little
> reference to a sheep industry in the towns / villages of Fermanagh
>
> Barry
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:08 AM
> Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
>
>
>>
>>
>> In the old pictures of my mother's family in Canada, there is always a
>> picture of her dog, a beautiful Border Collie. They had plenty of sheep
>> also. Had blankets made from them, that my grandma had woven herself.
>>
>>
>>
>> JoAnne
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Shirley Smith" <>
>> To: ,
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:22:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
>> Subject: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
>>
>> Hi, Dora, I am going to try to answer your question, even though I did
>> not
>> grow up on a farm and know very little about sheep. I have a book
>> entitled
>> 'The Scotch Irish: a Social History' by James G. Leyburn. Chapel Hill :
>> U.
>> of North Carolina Press, c1962. Leyburn was a professor at Washington and
>> Lee University when this book was published. One interesting point is
>> that
>> the word Reiver does not appear in the index. Instead he uses the term
>> Lowland Scots. Apparently Lowland Scots began raising sheep when they
>> arrived in Ulster. "From the beginning of the plantation the settlers
>> made
>> woolen cloth, which was easy to convey over the poor roads to seaport
>> towns," p. 115. On p. 158 he writes "Sheep flourished in all of the
>> northern counties, and the manufacture of wool was the logical result."
>> On
>> p. 262 he writes about the Scots Irish in America, "Sheep, so plentiful
>> in
>> Ulster, were rare on frontier farms, for they required either shepherds
>> or
>> fences, and labor was not av!
>> ailable for either; but the presence of even a few sheep bespoke the
>> quality of clothes the family would wear." When I read this to my
>> husband,
>> he replied, "a cow will stay close to home and come in at night and in
>> the
>> morning to be fed and milked. Sheep will wander because they just keep on
>> going and pasture wherever and sleep wherever." Interesting! Shirley (in
>> Florida and Maine)
>>
>>
>> Scotch-Irish were supposed to have gotten their distinctive natures from
>> a
>> background as shepherds.
>>
>> Only problem. I'm having the darndest time documenting that the border
>> people were ever shepherds - at least before the 19th century when all
>> those wonderful border sheep dogs evolved.
>>
>> What does anyone know about this?
>>
>> Yours,
>> Dora Smith
>> Austin, TX
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:43 PM
>> Subject: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes Don
>>> My sons info...though I breezed over it...said many of the Scot-Irish
>>> were criticized and look upon as inferior. BUT after their bravery in
>>> the
>>> wars...they gained respect.I think as some have mentioned (and I did)
>>> since
>>> they were criticized when they came here (by mostly English) and
>>> possibly
>>> having "no love" for the English..and feeling perhaps as this new land
>>> was
>>> "their" home -it sounds very logical to me that they would fight hard to
>>> keep
>>> it!
>>>
>>> It also said that the term "Scot-Irish" is an American term that did NOT
>>> come about till many years later. So red hair and Blue eyes and claiming
>>> to
>>> be "American" could very well be one of them. The fact that they were
>>> "chased out" of other areas I assume are true...but another idea brought
>>> up in
>>> my son's research was that...the Scots were use to moving. They had gone
>>> to
>>> N Ireland...then traveled across an ocean to a new land...so their minds
>>> were open to moving and finding new lands. A place to call their own.
>>>
>>> As Don stated earlier....and as I said prior....many American History
>>> books
>>> concentrated on what the "English, French and even Spanish" did. An
>>> issue
>>> I won't go into...because there are even "other" heritages" that were
>>> overlooked in a "prejudice" world. Thankfully today...with Internet and
>>> new
>>> authors we can learn more and compare. THUS...my point ...as Don
>>> said...do not
>>> take "one" history as law. Research. Look. read.....ALL points of view
>>> are
>>> important!
>>>
>>> TY all....I love the info! It is all so interesting!!!
>>>
>>> Sue in NY
>>>
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