RootsWeb: FERMANAGH-GOLD-L Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep

FERMANAGH-GOLD-L Archives

Archiver > FERMANAGH-GOLD > 2009-12 > 1262137419

From: "Bob & Wendy Stevenson" <>
Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:43:39 -0500
References: <989867030.5749891262134220176.JavaMail.root@sz0024a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><A977D8DC1681455992A3830E319477FD@BarryBradfiePC>

Sorry Barry, Patrick was Welsh! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Bradfield" <> To: <> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:57 PM Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep > Hi Don, > Patrick was English and captured in a raid in England by the Irish. He was > taken to Ireland as a slave. > > Barry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "donkelly" <> > To: <> > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:50 AM > Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep > > >> Well true of course, but not 100%. >> >> Remember that Saint Patrick was a shepherd in Down/Antrim before he went >> to England, also before he returned to Ireland and became a saint. And >> over in Scotland there was the famous Shepherd Poet of the borders. There >> were plenty of sheep for sure, but lots more a hundred years later. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Barry Bradfield <> >> To: >> Sent: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:35:44 +0000 (UTC) >> Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep >> >> Hi, >> As regards the sheep and the reivers etc in Ireland I'm reasonably sure >> that >> sheep were not a major flock in Ulster in the 17th and 18th century. The >> woolen industry was not a major industry. In the very late 1700's (c1790) >> an >> O'Donnell of Larkfield outside Manorhamilton brought over from Scotland >> a >> Campbell family of shepherds to help introduce sheep into the mountains >> between Leitrim and Fermanagh. There was nobody in Leitrim /Fermanagh >> with >> shepherding skills. Prior to that it was the cow which roamed and fed on >> these mountains.In addition the native Irish of these areas had little >> interest in sheep. >> In Pigots directory 1824 which is available on line you will find little >> reference to a sheep industry in the towns / villages of Fermanagh >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <> >> To: <> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:08 AM >> Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep >> >> >>> >>> >>> In the old pictures of my mother's family in Canada, there is always a >>> picture of her dog, a beautiful Border Collie. They had plenty of sheep >>> also. Had blankets made from them, that my grandma had woven herself. >>> >>> >>> >>> JoAnne >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Shirley Smith" <> >>> To: , >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:22:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >>> Subject: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep >>> >>> Hi, Dora, I am going to try to answer your question, even though I did >>> not >>> grow up on a farm and know very little about sheep. I have a book >>> entitled >>> 'The Scotch Irish: a Social History' by James G. Leyburn. Chapel Hill : >>> U. >>> of North Carolina Press, c1962. Leyburn was a professor at Washington >>> and >>> Lee University when this book was published. One interesting point is >>> that >>> the word Reiver does not appear in the index. Instead he uses the term >>> Lowland Scots. Apparently Lowland Scots began raising sheep when they >>> arrived in Ulster. "From the beginning of the plantation the settlers >>> made >>> woolen cloth, which was easy to convey over the poor roads to seaport >>> towns," p. 115. On p. 158 he writes "Sheep flourished in all of the >>> northern counties, and the manufacture of wool was the logical result." >>> On >>> p. 262 he writes about the Scots Irish in America, "Sheep, so plentiful >>> in >>> Ulster, were rare on frontier farms, for they required either shepherds >>> or >>> fences, and labor was not av! >>> ailable for either; but the presence of even a few sheep bespoke the >>> quality of clothes the family would wear." When I read this to my >>> husband, >>> he replied, "a cow will stay close to home and come in at night and in >>> the >>> morning to be fed and milked. Sheep will wander because they just keep >>> on >>> going and pasture wherever and sleep wherever." Interesting! Shirley (in >>> Florida and Maine) >>> >>> >>> Scotch-Irish were supposed to have gotten their distinctive natures from >>> a >>> background as shepherds. >>> >>> Only problem. I'm having the darndest time documenting that the border >>> people were ever shepherds - at least before the 19th century when all >>> those wonderful border sheep dogs evolved. >>> >>> What does anyone know about this? >>> >>> Yours, >>> Dora Smith >>> Austin, TX >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <> >>> To: <> >>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:43 PM >>> Subject: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Yes Don >>>> My sons info...though I breezed over it...said many of the Scot-Irish >>>> were criticized and look upon as inferior. BUT after their bravery in >>>> the >>>> wars...they gained respect.I think as some have mentioned (and I did) >>>> since >>>> they were criticized when they came here (by mostly English) and >>>> possibly >>>> having "no love" for the English..and feeling perhaps as this new land >>>> was >>>> "their" home -it sounds very logical to me that they would fight hard >>>> to >>>> keep >>>> it! >>>> >>>> It also said that the term "Scot-Irish" is an American term that did >>>> NOT >>>> come about till many years later. So red hair and Blue eyes and >>>> claiming >>>> to >>>> be "American" could very well be one of them. The fact that they were >>>> "chased out" of other areas I assume are true...but another idea >>>> brought >>>> up in >>>> my son's research was that...the Scots were use to moving. They had >>>> gone >>>> to >>>> N Ireland...then traveled across an ocean to a new land...so their >>>> minds >>>> were open to moving and finding new lands. A place to call their own. >>>> >>>> As Don stated earlier....and as I said prior....many American History >>>> books >>>> concentrated on what the "English, French and even Spanish" did. An >>>> issue >>>> I won't go into...because there are even "other" heritages" that were >>>> overlooked in a "prejudice" world. Thankfully today...with Internet and >>>> new >>>> authors we can learn more and compare. THUS...my point ...as Don >>>> said...do not >>>> take "one" history as law. Research. Look. read.....ALL points of view >>>> are >>>> important! >>>> >>>> TY all....I love the info! It is all so interesting!!! >>>> >>>> Sue in NY >>>> >>>> Please post messages in plain text. >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> Please post messages in plain text. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> Please post messages in plain text. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> Please post messages in plain text. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> Please post messages in plain text. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> Please post messages in plain text. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > Please post messages in plain text. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.431 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2592 - Release Date: 12/29/09 07:47:00