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Archiver > FERMANAGH-GOLD > 2009-12 > 1262134220


From: donkelly <>
Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:50:20 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <48679ED0B0E54F05B38900A701EDE9B5@BarryBradfiePC>


Well true of course, but not 100%.

Remember that Saint Patrick was a shepherd in Down/Antrim before he went to England, also before he returned to Ireland and became a saint. And over in Scotland there was the famous Shepherd Poet of the borders. There were plenty of sheep for sure, but lots more a hundred years later.
----- Original Message -----
From: Barry Bradfield <>
To:
Sent: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:35:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep

Hi,
As regards the sheep and the reivers etc in Ireland I'm reasonably sure that
sheep were not a major flock in Ulster in the 17th and 18th century. The
woolen industry was not a major industry. In the very late 1700's (c1790) an
O'Donnell of Larkfield outside Manorhamilton brought over from Scotland a
Campbell family of shepherds to help introduce sheep into the mountains
between Leitrim and Fermanagh. There was nobody in Leitrim /Fermanagh with
shepherding skills. Prior to that it was the cow which roamed and fed on
these mountains.In addition the native Irish of these areas had little
interest in sheep.
In Pigots directory 1824 which is available on line you will find little
reference to a sheep industry in the towns / villages of Fermanagh

Barry



----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep


>
>
> In the old pictures of my mother's family in Canada, there is always a
> picture of her dog, a beautiful Border Collie. They had plenty of sheep
> also. Had blankets made from them, that my grandma had woven herself.
>
>
>
> JoAnne
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shirley Smith" <>
> To: ,
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:22:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins and sheep
>
> Hi, Dora, I am going to try to answer your question, even though I did not
> grow up on a farm and know very little about sheep. I have a book entitled
> 'The Scotch Irish: a Social History' by James G. Leyburn. Chapel Hill : U.
> of North Carolina Press, c1962. Leyburn was a professor at Washington and
> Lee University when this book was published. One interesting point is that
> the word Reiver does not appear in the index. Instead he uses the term
> Lowland Scots. Apparently Lowland Scots began raising sheep when they
> arrived in Ulster. "From the beginning of the plantation the settlers made
> woolen cloth, which was easy to convey over the poor roads to seaport
> towns," p. 115. On p. 158 he writes "Sheep flourished in all of the
> northern counties, and the manufacture of wool was the logical result." On
> p. 262 he writes about the Scots Irish in America, "Sheep, so plentiful in
> Ulster, were rare on frontier farms, for they required either shepherds or
> fences, and labor was not av!
> ailable for either; but the presence of even a few sheep bespoke the
> quality of clothes the family would wear." When I read this to my husband,
> he replied, "a cow will stay close to home and come in at night and in the
> morning to be fed and milked. Sheep will wander because they just keep on
> going and pasture wherever and sleep wherever." Interesting! Shirley (in
> Florida and Maine)
>
>
> Scotch-Irish were supposed to have gotten their distinctive natures from a
> background as shepherds.
>
> Only problem. I'm having the darndest time documenting that the border
> people were ever shepherds - at least before the 19th century when all
> those wonderful border sheep dogs evolved.
>
> What does anyone know about this?
>
> Yours,
> Dora Smith
> Austin, TX
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:43 PM
> Subject: FER-GOLD Reiver cousins
>
>
>>
>> Yes Don
>> My sons info...though I breezed over it...said many of the Scot-Irish
>> were criticized and look upon as inferior. BUT after their bravery in the
>> wars...they gained respect.I think as some have mentioned (and I did)
>> since
>> they were criticized when they came here (by mostly English) and possibly
>> having "no love" for the English..and feeling perhaps as this new land
>> was
>> "their" home -it sounds very logical to me that they would fight hard to
>> keep
>> it!
>>
>> It also said that the term "Scot-Irish" is an American term that did NOT
>> come about till many years later. So red hair and Blue eyes and claiming
>> to
>> be "American" could very well be one of them. The fact that they were
>> "chased out" of other areas I assume are true...but another idea brought
>> up in
>> my son's research was that...the Scots were use to moving. They had gone
>> to
>> N Ireland...then traveled across an ocean to a new land...so their minds
>> were open to moving and finding new lands. A place to call their own.
>>
>> As Don stated earlier....and as I said prior....many American History
>> books
>> concentrated on what the "English, French and even Spanish" did. An issue
>> I won't go into...because there are even "other" heritages" that were
>> overlooked in a "prejudice" world. Thankfully today...with Internet and
>> new
>> authors we can learn more and compare. THUS...my point ...as Don
>> said...do not
>> take "one" history as law. Research. Look. read.....ALL points of view
>> are
>> important!
>>
>> TY all....I love the info! It is all so interesting!!!
>>
>> Sue in NY
>>
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