ESSEX-UK-L ArchivesArchiver > ESSEX-UK > 2003-05 > 1053068825
From: "David Lamb" <>
Subject: Re: TAVENER in Hatfield or Ashford
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:07:05 +0100
The problem is that there isn't a place in Essex called simply "Hatfield",
although there are several places including the word "Hatfield" (Hatfield
Broad Oak - also known as King's Hatfield or Hatfield Regis, Hatfield
Forest, Hatfield Peverel). There is a Hatfield in Hertfordshire and
another in Herefordshire. In the same way, there is no Ashford in Essex -
the nearest in name is a little place called Ashford Lodge, 1 mile north
north east of Halstead. There are places called Ashford in Kent, Devon,
Middlesex and Derbyshire, in addition to Ashford Dowdler and Ashford
Carbonell in Shropshire.
Looking at entries on the 1881 Census, "Hatfield" seems to have been given
as the birthplace of several people as an abbreviation for Hatfield Peverel
and Hatfield Broad Oak. There are 8 TAV(ER)NERs in Essex on that census
listed as having been born in Hatfield Peverel, and none born in the other
Essex Hatfields, so that might be an indication (but no more) that Hatfield
Peverel is the place. However, that still leaves the problem of Ashford.
If it were Ashford Lodge, that's about 13 miles from Hatfield Peverel.
Slightly closer, at 12 miles, is Ashingdon, but there's no suggestion in
your message that the place name is difficult to read. As you say she
gives "Ashford, Essex" as the birthplace of her two daughters, if you could
get a birth certificate for one of them, it should tell you exactly where
she was born.
Sorry not to be able to give you anything more definite.
David Lamb (Paignton, Devon, UK)
Interests (Essex): BAXTER, BERRY, EREY, GOLDSTONE, LAMB, MOTT, PARTRIDGE,
SARGENT, TICHBORNE, WEBB, WILLSHER
(Suffolk): BRYNGLOVE, CRISPE, FINCH, PARTRIDGE, PORTER, PRATT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine Fryer" <>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 3:44 AM
Subject: TAVENER in Hatfield or Ashford
> I have an Ann TAVENER born in Hatfield, Essex about 1811 or 1808
> depending on which census you believe. Probably 1808 in my experience
> with older women and the census. She is living with her son John TUTTON
> in the 1861 and 1881 censuses in Chelsea where her son was born and
> going by the name of Tutton and is a widow.
> I recently found an Ann Tavener in the 1851 census in Chelsea. She is a
> widow, occupation Laundress, same as her occupation in 1861. She lists
> her birth place, as well as two daughters', as Ashford, Essex. Is it
> anywhere near Hatfield? She has five other children, including son
> John, that were born in Chelsea. So I've spent a few evenings looking
> for the registration of the Chelsea births with no success except John's
> under the names of Tavener and Tutton.
> Took a new look at John's birth certificate which I've had for a while.
> It states his father's name as Robert Tutton and mother is Ann TAVNER.
> No formerly Tavner or Tavener. The signature is an X, the mark of Ann
> Tavner. It's starting to dawn on me that these people weren't married.
> I'm obviously slow on the uptake.
> So my questions are would someone use Hatfield and Ashford
> interchangably? And has anyone else seen a birth certificate like this
> with unmarried parents?. It my be the "Sir" John my husband's family
> have me searching for unsuccessfully was a bastard. This won't go down
> well and may have to be one of those unspoken secrets.
> Thanks to anyone who made it down this far.
> Catherine, in Victoria, BC Canada