ESSEX-UK-L Archives

Archiver > ESSEX-UK > 2002-08 > 1029624436


From: Jim Polson <>
Subject: Re: Tom and Jerry
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:47:16 -0700
In-Reply-To: <003e01c24622$a183d880$85f10250@ColleenMorrison>


Hi, Colleen

Yes, Partridge has both Jerry Riddle and Jimmy Riddle. He doesn't
give a derivation--there probably isn't one, rhyming slang often
being quite arbitrary. Jerry seems to be older than Jimmy. At least,
Partridge gives Jerry as being mid-19 to 20 century, while Jimmy
is late 19 to 20. That doesn't necessarily mean anything--perhaps
he didn't turn up any earlier citations for Jimmy.

I did find the following. (I hope French is allowed in Essex even if
the Euro isn't :-) ) There are certainly some odd websites out
there, but I guess if you are searching for rhyming slang for "piddle"
you can end up a little off the beaten path.


http://www.erudit.org/erudit/meta/v43n02/van_hoof/van_hoof.html

On pourrait par analogie considérer comme explétifs les prénoms
qui interviennent dans le rhyming slang, partiellement explétifs
lorsqu'ils sont porteurs de la rime car dans ce cas la liberté de
choix est malgré tout limitée, mais totalement explétifs lorsqu'ils
ne font qu'accompagner le mot porteur de rime car alors
l'arbitraire est absolu, comme le prouvent les différentes formes qui
peuvent exister pour une même notion : Jimmy, Joe et Ned
Skinner pour dinner, Harry et Jack Randall pour candle, Dolly et
Johnny Cotton pour rotten, Jack et Johnny Horner pour corner,
Dicky et Jerry Diddle, Jerry et Jimmy Riddle pour to piddle, etc.

had the idea from somewhere that Jerry Diddle was rhyming slang
for fiddle, but what do I know?

Jim Polson
Vancouver


> I'm interested in your 'Jerry Riddle' - I've always know this as
> a Jimmy Riddle, does your dictionary say where this comes
from?
> Do other English/origin listers use Jerry or Jimmy?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Colleen - in Essex, England


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