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From: "George English" <>
Subject: Re: [EoLFHS] Cockney pronunciation
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:40:49 -0000
References: <000201c3c682$0f50af60$065cddcb@t5r8y0> <001801c3c6b1$47bebf20$6400a8c0@swfla.rr.com>


A bit earlier than the 1890s. I hadn't realised why Rhyming Slang started -
the following deals with both.

"John Minsheu in 1617 in his work Ductor in Linguas gives his derivation as
follows:
'A cockney or cockny, applied only to one born within the sound of Bow bell,
that is in the City of London, a tearme coming first out of this tale. That
a citizen's sonne riding with his father in the country, asked when he heard
a horse neigh what the horse did; his father answered "neigh." Riding
further he heard a cock crow, and said: "Does the cock neigh too?"'

The most famous aspect of the Cockney is Rhyming Slang. Slang in which the
word intended is replaced by a phrase that rhymes with it, the rhyming word
is then dropped and becomes understood. For example Feet rhymes with Plates
of meat which is reduced to Plates and can be used in the phrase "My plates
are killing me." It was used to create a code which felons could use to talk
to each other while avoiding the police or informers overhearing and
understanding them."

Kind regards

George

----- Original Message -----
From: "P & S O'Donnell" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 4:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EoLFHS] Cockney pronunciation


> Christmas Greetings to all from the Colonies:
>
> One assumes your ancestor must have been on the 1841 census then. I don't
> know whether we recognised East Londoners as Cockney's that early - did
not
> the term come to light about the 1890's the time of musichall? However,
> remember some Cockneys tried to talk posh putting h's where they should
not
> be (my family did quite often) have you looked at Thackrell - just a
> thought.
>
> Shirley in chilly Florida only 64 degrees F today!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maureen Robertson" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 5:40 PM
> Subject: [EoLFHS] Cockney pronunciation
>
>
> > Hello Listers,
> > Reading your messages re above with interest.
> > My James Fackrell (Mariner) who came to Australia about 1847, was a
> Cockney.
> > I was wondering how the Fackrell could be otherwise pronounced. I have
> > looked for his family in London under Frackrell,Tackrell,Fracknell.
> > Lost his father Joseph James Fackrell and stepmother Charlotte Fackrell
> > after 1855. They were in Clerkenwell at that time. Can not find them on
> the
> > 1861 or 1871 Census. Joseph died in 1880 at Islington. Charlotte was
> entered
> > under Frackrell in 1891.
> > Pleased to hear your comments.
> >
> > Happy Christmas to all.
> >
> > Maureen Robertson in very warm Queensland.
> >
>

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