EOLFHS-MEMBERS-L ArchivesArchiver > EOLFHS-MEMBERS > 2003-12 > 1071622713
From: Beverly Porter <>
Subject: Re: [EoLFHS] Cockney pronunciation
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:58:33 -0500
Thank you, and the others who dropped me a note, for your comments.
Definitely different sounds than in Maryland or, I would imagine, the
New York where they ended up in 1850. The dropping of the A in Amelia
fits in with my locating of Amelia in the 1880 census; there she was
listed as Melia Fearn. In 1870, however, she was Mary Fern, and possibly
that was also the case in 1850 though that one still has to be verified.
Thank you, too, Graham for a new possible FEARN variation. I'm having
difficulty finding two of the other FEARNs in 1870. I'll give VEARN a
Graham King wrote:
> Sorry Pauline, as a Cockney I don't agree! You're dead right about the "th"
> sound and I really like the examples. I'm of the opinion that if the "f"
> sound follows a terminal vowel, such as the "a" in Amelia, then the
> following consonant would tend to get "swallowed" or de-emphasised. I'm not
> saying that the "f" sound wouldn't be there at all, simply that it would
> become quite indistinct, so that an enumerator, working totally orally might
> not transcribe it correctly.
> However ... the debate is quite lively and hopefully it has given Beverly
> some food for thought! Long way from the way they talk in Maryland eh?
> A merry Chris'mas an' annappy New Year to awlEas' London listers.
> Graham King
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Haggerty [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [EoLFHS] Cockney pronunciation
> Sorry Graham, as a cockney I dont agree. Its our 'th' that isn't distinct,
> in fact we would replace it with 'f'
> fanks - thanks, free - three].
> I would pronounce the surname 'Fern'
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graham King" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:27 AM
> Subject: RE: [EoLFHS] Cockney pronunciation
> > The most likely pronunciation would drop the "a" at the beginning. Yes so
> > Milly is a good one, also Meela, Melia maybe even Molly. No real variants
> > on the surname as far as pronunciation goes, except that Cockneys do odd
> > things with consonants and so the "F" wouldn't be very distinct. The name
> > might have been enumerated or recorded as Vearn.
> > Regards
> > Graham King