DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-L Archives

Archiver > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES > 2006-12 > 1166449631


From: "Hans Kopp" <>
Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 187
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:47:11 -0500
In-Reply-To: <mailman.814.1166428897.31879.donauschwaben-villages@rootsweb.com>


Thank you Henry

This is quite an inlightening piece of history I was not aware of.

It certainly does add more to the confusuion and they were part of the
people who we can not locate.

There were several families who settled in my home town !1763-1768)
originating from the Tolnau which we can not trace back to the German
motherland. Your information certainly gives us a clue as to whay not.

Happy Holidays

Hans Kopp





From:
Reply-To:
To:
Subject: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 187
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 01:01:37 -0700



Today's Topics:

1. Re: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 185
(Henry Fischer)
2. Surname Held from Bacstovaros (jenny pittl)
3. Re: Surname Held from Bacstovaros (Rose Mary K Hughes)



From: "Henry Fischer" <>
To: "Hans Kopp" <>,
<>
Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 185
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:17:34 -0500
Just to add a note to Hans Kopp's helpful and detailed sketch of Danube
Swabian emigration history.

There is a foot note I would like to add to all Danube Swabian
histories...because there are many... depending on which part of the
Habsburg Danubian Empire we write about. Large scale numbers of Lutheran
and Reformed settlers from Hesse were part of the first phase of the
Schwabenzug into Hungary and form some of the oldest continuing Danube
Swabian communities still in existence in Hungary today. They also settled
in the Banat in 1719 in Langenfeld and several neighbouring villages all of
which were later destroyed by the Turks. There was one person of note who
accepted these Protestant settlers on his estates in Tolna County, none
other than Count von Mercy the Governor of the Banat and the man the Emperor
placed in charge of his repopulation programme, who was later disciplined by
the Vienese Court for going out of his way to lure the Lutheran settlers off
of the imperial transports to settle in Hungary instead of going on to the
Banat. All of my ancestors who arrived in Hungary in the period from
1720-1725 and others who arrived later, jumped ship at Paks on the Danube
and went overland and settled on his estates. They arrived with special
letters patent from the Emperor for the right to practice their faith but it
would take some of our communties six decades to achieve it and only
following the Edict of Toleration of "good King Joseph".

Henry Fischer
Swabian Turkey Co-Ordinator

----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Kopp" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 185


>Hi Dan and everyone reading this
>
>I do acknowledge that it is extremely difficult to portray our true
>history,
>since we are people from a foreign country who did not have a country of
>their own. Therefore no one writes about us in their history in the
>countries we originate in Southwest Europe, which are Hungary, Romania and
>Yugoslavia. As a matter of fact the Serbians do not even want to
>acknowledge
>we existed although we provided for their livelihood between the wars.
>During the post war year's Donauschwaben scholars in Germany and Austria
>were determined to write a complete history of our ancestors which they
>did;
>however the books are all in the German language. It was not until I was
>asked to write a historical book in English by Mr. Franz Awender, then the
>vice president of the Donauschwaben USA, which was published as a sort off
>a
>short history for our children.
>I have purchased about 100 copies of my own book to place it into various
>libraries around the country, Canada, Germany, Austria, Hungary,
>Yugoslavia,
>Argentina, Brazil and one even travel to Iraq with a soldier of
>Donauschwaben extraction, so as he puts it finds strength in it.
>As you need to know that most of our people when they came to the United
>States did not have a clear perception of who they were, meaning what
>nationality. Since those who came prior to WWI are listed as Hungarians and
>it is assumed they are Hungarians by there descendants, while those who
>came
>after WWI are listed as originating in Hungary, Romania or Yugoslavia.
>Since during those years after 1867 when the Double Monarchy of
>Austria-Hungary was established after the equalization treaty between
>Austrian Empire established in 1806 and the Hungarian Kingdom, most of our
>ancestors prior to WWI may also have identified themselves
>Austria-Hungarians. Many of their descendants did not know that their
>ancestors were settled in a land left by the Turks which the Turks
>completely ruined, since it was strictly a frontier country for them. The
>Hungarian population which was left became nomads, housing in underground
>dwelling they vacated, as soon as, Turks were spotted who raided their land
>on a regular bases to find food.
>
>At the time the armies of the "Holy Roman Empire of German Nation" defeated
>the Turks who threatened Christianity with their indent to wipe out the
>Christians from the face of the earth (read the information "History of the
>Donauschwaben" http://donauschwaben-usa.org/history.htm). After that there
>lived only 1.5 people per square mile on the land in Hungary according to
>historians. The Hungarian landlords however, who had fled to their northern
>country the Turks failed to occupy where they established their capital in
>Pressburg today's Bratislava. After the land was cleared they needed people
>to work the land and drafted a memorandum and presented it to their King
>who
>at the same time was the Emperor of the "Holy Roman Empire of German
>Nation".
>What make things even more confusing is the religious differences in the
>German Nation. By now Luther had succeeded to divide Germans into Catholics
>in the south and Lutherans in the north, this was by no means intentionally
>done, but it happened. In addition many other religious believes surfaced
>like the Calvinists, the Protestants, the Separatists, the Mennonites, the
>Amish and so on.
>Furthermore, the non Catholics became so to speak undesirable until 1780
>when Joseph II reformed the countries laws one of which was religious
>freedom. History became even more complicated when the French occupied the
>German Lothringen and Elsass and placed the Polish King exiled in France as
>governor in charge of these territories.
>Now we see a mass exit from those regions. The religiously persecuted to
>the
>USA the Catholics to the east. Many by way of the Rheine River to ports in
>Holland from where they traveled to England and were then settled in
>Pennsylvania. As a matter of fact many people for reasons as such left
>Germany for the west so that the Hessians and the provinces along the Rhine
>River had to close it and make laws in fear of loosing their population, as
>well as, their treasures, since the people took all the silver wear with
>them which the used as payments for their trips and new starts when
>arriving
>in the new land.
>Therefore; you can rest assure that our ancestors where certainly neither
>criminals nor adventurers. They were looking for a place where they could
>raise their families without fear in peace. Once we understand the position
>of the time, the religious and the political situations our ancestor found
>themself in and the many promises by emissaries made, the east-west
>movement
>was underway.
>Indeed these were extremely complicated and difficult times to understand.
>I do hope that I have contributed not more to the confusion but to clarify
>matters a bit. This is my commitment in life since my retirement. This is
>the reason why I have become a contributor. It should help by reading what
>we have placed on the websites already about our history, the chronicle and
>the upcoming and in progress part "An illustrated history of the
>Donauschwaben" presented with pictures about our daily lives in the "Land
>of
>the Donauschwaben", I prefer to call it, simply to make people understand
>their were areas we did call our land, our ancestors worked, it should
>place
>things in a better prospective, about our social mores and also a political
>candid presentation as it developed and why things happened for which the
>Donauschwaben as German, are blamed for, but had in actuality nothing to do
>with, since they never had attained any political powers to do anything,
>but
>were at the mercy of what happed around them and became mostly an unwilling
>part off.
>
>To every one out there marry Christmas and a happy New Year.
>
>Hans Kopp
>
>
>
>
>
>From:
>Reply-To:
>To:
>Subject: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 185
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 01:02:47 -0700
>
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 182 (Dan Drew)
> 2. ATTENTION DIGEST MODE SUBSCRIBERS (ajleeb)
> 3. Why a settler would "want" to emigrate (Mercydorf)
> 4. Re: Fw: Alsace Information (Susan Williams)
> 5. Hans Kopp (Rose Mary K Hughes)
> 6. Name possiblities-Driegostina (Eve)
> 7. Re: Why a settler would "want" to emigrate (Nick Tullius)
>
>
>
>From: Dan Drew <>
>To: "Hans Kopp" <>
>CC:
>Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 182
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:22:36 -0500
>Hans,
>
>I purposely spoke in generalities; but regret it if I was vague to the
>point
>of a fault. I am not really qualified to speak with authority on any
>specifics of history. The real impetus for my post was a "series of posts"
>by several DS descendants who seemed to be implying that their ancestors
>must have done something evil or experienced some tragedy... else they
>would
>NOT have become "Kolonisten" ...an assumption that you surely agree must be
>false. I simply wished to reassure them that the decision to "Go east
>young
>man" was probably a "noble decision" in most cases... and not an "escape
>from shame" or some such thing.
>
>I just spent a couple of hours reviewing your "chronicles." They are,
>indeed, the best I have ever seen! I understand you have published a book;
>and I am most eager to obtain a copy. Can I get a copy from Amazon? I
>have
>an account there. Please let me know how I can obtain a copy.
>
>I appreciate, and am honored by your response to my post and I humbly
>acknowledge that I have been duly chided! All the same I could not help
>being "jolted" by your reference to:
>>the empty space and the invitation by the Hungarians to work their land
>To me this does not sound very different than the invitation by the Western
>European monarchs to their masses referring to "the empty spaces" of the
>Americas. Fortunately for us Americans, however, "the plan" did not end in
>disaster........ yet!
>
>Best regards!
>
>Dan Drew, M.D.
>Indianapolis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: ajleeb <>
>To:
>Subject: [DVHH] ATTENTION DIGEST MODE SUBSCRIBERS
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:12:21 -0700
>
>ATTENTION DIGEST MODE SUBSCRIBERS:
>
>To READ & REPLY to a Digest Attachment Message.....
>
>You are receiving daily (and sometimes twice a day) email notifications,
>which include message attachment(s) for each posting made that day. To
>view
>the "Subject lines" of the postings, click on your attachment icon. And
>you
>will see a list of all messages available for you to read.
>
>To read a "particular" message.... while the attachment list is open
>"CLICK"
>on the Subject matter you want to read >>> and a little window will open
>and
>ask "Do you want to open this file?" - CLICK YES. The message will open
>up,
>as if it arrived right into your inbox
>
>To REPLY to this "particular" message, all you need to do is, while the
>message is still open - CLICK "Reply-All" and add your comments; then send.
>This will ensure the subject line will remain the same as the original
>message and will be archived properly for easy searching.
>
>Replying any other way, will (1): cause your subject line to be read as:
>"DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue ??" - (which conceals the
>contents of your message and people searching our archives will overlook
>your message); and (2): will cause "ALL" unrelated messages made that day,
>to be tagged onto your message, which are unnecessary.
>
>(Note: Reply, will only go to the original sender. Reply-All, goes to the
>entire list.)
>
>Thank you,
>
>Alex Leeb
>List Administrator
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: "Mercydorf" <>
>To: "Dan Drew" <>, "Hans Kopp"
><>,"Susan Williams"
><>,<>
>Subject: [DVHH] Why a settler would "want" to emigrate
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 02:36:08 -0500
>Susan, Dan, Hans and all,
>
>I think Susan was referring to "from the settlers point of view," why would
>they want to emigrate to a new land, leaving everything they knew behind -
>more specifically from "Bohemia."
>
>In the past we have heard stories about criminals being exiled to the DS
>regions, (I would like to know more about this); and/or emigrants moving
>because of religious persecutions. So, I can understand and appreciate
>Dan's response:
>
>"Although those "times were tough" for the peasant class in those days, I
>don't think we should assume that something terrible must have happened in
>every case where a person or family decided to volunteer to be colonists.
>In fact, I would rather believe that, in most cases, during those times,
>the
>decision was motivated by a general "spirit of adventure "along with the
>element that Nick pointed out... a general wish to improve one's lot in
>life."
>
>This certainly coincides with Hans explanation of history.... our
>ancestors,
>"subjects of the nobles who were the lords of the land." came to Hungary
>"by
>explicit invitation of the Hungarian landlords" ... being promised free
>land, to build cities and homes, free land to raise crops, produce and grow
>orchards, as well as, free pastures etc... **(although the settlers were
>deceived as to the land conditions)
>
>It seems all relevant to me. "Why a settler would want to emigrate?" - For
>the same reasons our ancestors immigrated to the America's! For a better
>way of life... (and yes, some were also escaping persecutions, running from
>military obligations, spouses and other reasons.)
>
>I'm not a historian, nor do I wish to challenge anyone in a history debate
>(I would lose ;-), but I think all countries/governments make decisions to
>increase their political position = power. More population = more men in
>military service, does it not? Just as Hans history (excerpt) indicates:
>
>"The Emperor of German Nation and King of Hungary Karl VI (1711-1740)
>supported the decision by the Hungarian landlords and invited men from his
>vast Empire to become pioneers of the barren lands left by the Turks and
>settle with their families there. This was done not only to resettle and
>cultivate the land and regain the population lost during the Turkish
>occupation, but also to establish military support for the Imperial Forces
>of German Nation stationed in Hungary with food supplies, materials as well
>as personnel. The Emperor believed strongly that the settlers should be a
>vital force in the defense of the land they settled and therefore every man
>had to serve as an army reservist."
>
>Similar campaigns were carried out to entice our ancestors to immigrate to
>the America's, by steel companies and such. Many US immigrants served in
>WW1, before becoming a citizen. And wasn't this mandatory?
>
>Now, Susan regarding Bohemia, Hans (excerpt)...
>"The first German colonists immediately followed the victories over the
>Turks. They were summoned primarily from the so-called Habsburg Erblanden
>(Land inherited by the Habsburg Crown). They came from Upper and Lower
>Austria, Bohemia (Bhmen), Moravia (Mhren), Bavaria (Bayern), Styria
>(Steiermark), Carinthia (Krnten) and Silesia (Schlesien). The first came
>in
>1686 and settled the regions of the mountains near Budapest."
>
>The three waves of German immigration were 1723-1726, 1763-1773 and
>1782-1787..
>from the first to the last year, approximately 60+ years. Surely word got
>back to the former homelands that emigration to Hungary not a cake walk.
>But they still kept coming!!!
>
>Dan's reference "Go east young man" reminds me of the popular phrase:
>Go west young man, haven't you been told, California's full of whiskey,
>women and gold!
>Started out as a coined political slogan back in the early-mid 1800's.
>
>--- "the empty spaces" of the Americas" ---
>Yes, it seems history does repeat itself.
>
>Jody
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Drew
> To: Hans Kopp
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 182
>
>
> Hans,
>
> I purposely spoke in generalities; but regret it if I was vague to the
> point of a fault. I am not really qualified to speak with authority on
> any specifics of history. The real impetus for my post was a "series
> of posts" by several DS descendants who seemed to be implying that
> their ancestors must have done something evil or experienced some
> tragedy... else they would NOT have become "Kolonisten" ...an
> assumption that you surely agree must be false. I simply wished to
> reassure them that the decision to "Go east young man" was probably a
> "noble decision" in most cases... and not an "escape from shame" or
> some such thing.
>
> I just spent a couple of hours reviewing your "chronicles." They are,
> indeed, the best I have ever seen! I understand you have published a
> book; and I am most eager to obtain a copy. Can I get a copy from
> Amazon? I have an account there. Please let me know how I can obtain
> a copy.
>
> I appreciate, and am honored by your response to my post and I humbly
> acknowledge that I have been duly chided! All the same I could not
> help being "jolted" by your reference to:
> > the empty space and the invitation by the Hungarians to work their
>land
> To me this does not sound very different than the invitation by the
> Western European monarchs to their masses referring to "the empty
> spaces" of the Americas. Fortunately for us Americans, however, "the
> plan" did not end in disaster........ yet!
>
> Best regards!
>
> Dan Drew, M.D.
> Indianapolis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: "Susan Williams" <>
>To: "Mercydorf" <>, "ajleeb"
><>,<>
>Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: Alsace Information
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:57:22 -0500
>Wouldn't that be fun! We'd probably find out we're all at least second
>cousins (smile). Susan
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mercydorf" <>
>To: "ajleeb" <>; <>
>Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:18 PM
>Subject: Re: [DVHH] Fw: Alsace Information
>
>
>Thank you Alex for sending the post.
>
>Too bad DNA testing is a little costly, it would be nice for us all to
>participate and find out who is blood-related.
>
>Jody
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: ajleeb
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:23 PM
> Subject: [DVHH] Fw: Alsace Information
>
>
> Message re-posted by (ajl)
>
>
> Hello Alex,
> oh yes ,I'm interested in:
> 1.) the Moutarde and 2.) Holexi family:
> who are the grandparents of my Maria Szaif grandmother (married to Joseph
>Stemper).
>
> Michael Szaif - my grandmothers father- is the son of Johann Szaif and
>Anna Maria Szaif nee Holexi and Elisabeth Tobias - my grandmothers mother -
>is the daughter of Peter Tobias and Anna Tobias nee Moutarde. The parents
>of
>Anna Moutarde/Tobias are Johann / Jean Moutarde and Ottilie Fischer.
> Unfortunately I do not have any Datas (Birthday or marriage or death) at
>all. The only thing I know, is what my granny told about her Moutarde
>grandmother, that she schimpfte in french, she spoke french.
>
> 3.) Frekot/Frecot my other great-great-grandparents .
> My grandmother Katharina Frekot was from Orzidorf and her parents were
>Johann and Margarethe (nee Leichnam) and they had at least 5 children :
>Johann, Anna (sterreicher/Estreicher), Margarethe, Katharina (my
>grandmother) , Elisabeth Parzer.
> Elizabeth and Johann emigrated to Hammond/Indiana where the descendents
>of
>Johann (John H and Nikki Frekot) are still living now in Merrillville. But
>they unfortunately do too not have any informations about their roots.
> I "discovered" them in August this year via rootsweb/mailing list and
>recognized some photos my granny must have sent to her sister Elizabeth,
>when my parents married. But neither did my grandmother speak about her
>family, nor did Nikkis and Johns grandparents. I can't imagine why. Was
>this usual in America, not to talk about the roots? My other rediscovered
>cousin Doris Bierhanzl (another Szaif descendent) told me that too. they
>were very surprized, when they learned, that we lived in Romania and that
>we
>have relatives in Budapest .
> Was it because the german "history"?
> I don't have the slightest idea. But it seems that there were more
>frekot-siblings than these 5. One is buried in Timisoara/Fabrikstadt
>cemetery, but I don't know the Vorname,(how do you call this in english?).
>
> I searched in Dreyers ship-list and found Anna and Elisabeth.
> But I don't have any access to Kirchenbuecher or something like that. On
>the cemetery of Orzidorf there are "Leichnams" (schaurig-schoenes
>Wortspiel)
>but I don't know who belongs to "my" family.
>
> "Waer schon interessant etwas ueber diesen Zweig meiner Familie in
>Erfahrung zu bringen, and where they come from.
>
> I remember my grandmother saying "mir komme aus Elsass-Lothringen und aus
>dem Rheinland" . My Stemper-part of family seems to be originar from
>Rheinland, but neither here I have explicit informations.
>
> So If you could "dig" something out, it would be very helpfull for me.
> Thank you very much.
> Lucia
>
>
> ajleeb <> schrieb:
> Lucia.
>
> Have you got any names you are researching from Orzydorf, Marienfeld?
> Thanks.
>
> Alex.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucia"
> To: "Diana Lambing" ; "DVHH"
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [DVHH] Alsace Information
>
>
> > Hello Diana,
> >
> > I'm interested on this informations too, particullary Orzydorf and
> > Marienfeld.
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Lucia
> > ------------------------
> > now in Germany
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger - kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC
> > telefonieren.
> >
> > *****
> > "Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who
>provided
> > information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers
>hope
> > to others who are searching for clues to the lives of their
>ancestors.
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > with the word
>'unsubscribe'
> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
>
>
>
> *****
> "Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who
>provided information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers
>hope to others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jetzt Mails schnell in einem Vorschaufenster berfliegen. Dies und viel
>mehr bietet das neue Yahoo! Mail .
>
> *****
> "Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
>information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
>others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>*****
>"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
>information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
>others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: "Rose Mary K Hughes" <>
>To: <>
>Subject: [DVHH] Hans Kopp
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:35:01 -0500
>Welcome, Hans! We are all richer for having you and the others who have
>experienced the life in the former DS villages. Thank you for your
>contributions.
>
>Rose Mary K Hughes
>W Henrietta, NY, USA
>http://rmhughes.homestead.com/index.html
>http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/u/g/Rose-mary-K-Hughes/index.html#edit
>http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=keller-wagner&I11.x=32&I11.y=0
>http://www.ddvh.org/semlak
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: DVHH Project
> To: Hans Kopp ;
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:33 PM
> Subject: [DVHH] DVHH Announcement - Hans Kopp
>
>
> I would like to formally introduce "Hans Kopp" to our growing DVHH
>circle
>of Donauschwaben veterans. Hans was born in Batschsentiwan, near Apatin on
>the Danube, the "Land of the Danube Swabians," (in Hungary prior to 1914).
>As a child in 1945, he became a post World War II victim of ethnic
>cleansing
>in Communist Yugoslavia.
>
> Author of "The Last Generation Forgotten and Left to Die" "The History
>of
>the Danube Swabians."
> Hans has written this book for you, me, and the generations who were
>denied the opportunity to learn more about their culture. I purchased a
>copy of his book and when it arrived, I was amazed at what it contained! It
>is slam packed with information and photos from ALL regions. Last I knew,
>he still had some copies.
>
> For the last few months Hans and I have been working together on an
>online presentation of excerpts and MANY images from his book, which I know
>you all will enjoy and learn from. We're not finished, and will resume
>publication after the first of 2007, so please check back.
>
> I invite you all to review Hans' contributions thus far to the DVHH and
>to read his biography, he's been a very busy man!
>
> http://www.dvhh.org/society/literary/kopp-files/index.htm
>
> Thank you Hans! What a pleasure it's been working with you. We do
>appreciate your contributions to the DVHH in effort to keep the Danube
>Swabian legacy alive!
>
> Merry Christmas,
> Jody McKim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Eve <>
>To:
>Subject: [DVHH] Name possiblities-Driegostina
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 19:58:31 -0500
>I found this name on microfilm - it is a male Federmann relative (I
>believe), but am wondering what other name this may be known as - Augustus
>maybe?
>
>I would appreciate any help or ideas on this.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Eve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: "Nick Tullius" <>
>Reply-To:
>To: <>
>Subject: Re: [DVHH] Why a settler would "want" to emigrate
>Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:14:38 -0500
>If I may add just a few clarifications:
>
>While some DS settlers came at the invitation of Hungarian nobility and
>settled on their estates (the Sathmar Swabians, for example) the settlers
>that came to the Banat during the three large Swabian emigration waves
>(Schwabenzge; 1723-1726, 1763-1773 and 1782-1787) followed only the calls
>of their emperor to settle on the newly-acquired and mostly empty 'crown
>land' (owned by the administration in Vienna). They had to drain the
>swamps,
>and many of the first generation died doing it. At some point, a large
>number of villages were sold and their inhabitants once again became
>subjects of new landlords (how is that for betrayal?). My native village
>was
>settled later, on land given by Vienna to the bishop of Agram/Zagreb. They
>had to sign a pretty demanding contract set up by the bishop's lawyers.
>After 1848, when serfdom was finally abolished, they had to buy their land
>from the bishop - on his terms! On the plus side, he built our two-spire
>baroque church and you can still see his coat of arms mounted between the
>two towers (especially on the second photo):
>http://www.dvhh.org/alexanderhausen2/photos/church/index.htm
>
>Very few of the original settlers had problems with the law in their native
>country; certainly not enough to
>
>Best regards,
>Nick Tullius
>www.dvhh.org/alexanderhausen2
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
>[mailto:] On Behalf Of Mercydorf
>Sent: December 15, 2006 2:36 AM
>To: Dan Drew; Hans Kopp; Susan Williams;
>
>Subject: [DVHH] Why a settler would "want" to emigrate
>
>
>Susan, Dan, Hans and all,
>
>I think Susan was referring to "from the settlers point of view," why would
>they want to emigrate to a new land, leaving everything they knew behind -
>more specifically from "Bohemia."
>
>In the past we have heard stories about criminals being exiled to the DS
>regions, (I would like to know more about this); and/or emigrants moving
>because of religious persecutions. So, I can understand and appreciate
>Dan's response:
>
>"Although those "times were tough" for the peasant class in those days, I
>don't think we should assume that something terrible must have happened in
>every case where a person or family decided to volunteer to be colonists.
>In fact, I would rather believe that, in most cases, during those times,
>the
>decision was motivated by a general "spirit of adventure "along with the
>element that Nick pointed out... a general wish to improve one's lot in
>life."
>
>This certainly coincides with Hans explanation of history.... our
>ancestors,
>"subjects of the nobles who were the lords of the land." came to Hungary
>"by
>explicit invitation of the Hungarian landlords" ... being promised free
>land, to build cities and homes, free land to raise crops, produce and grow
>orchards, as well as, free pastures etc... **(although the settlers were
>deceived as to the land conditions)
>
>It seems all relevant to me. "Why a settler would want to emigrate?" - For
>the same reasons our ancestors immigrated to the America's! For a better
>way of life... (and yes, some were also escaping persecutions, running from
>military obligations, spouses and other reasons.)
>
>I'm not a historian, nor do I wish to challenge anyone in a history debate
>(I would lose ;-), but I think all countries/governments make decisions to
>increase their political position = power. More population = more men in
>military service, does it not? Just as Hans history (excerpt) indicates:
>
>"The Emperor of German Nation and King of Hungary Karl VI (1711-1740)
>supported the decision by the Hungarian landlords and invited men from his
>vast Empire to become pioneers of the barren lands left by the Turks and
>settle with their families there. This was done not only to resettle and
>cultivate the land and regain the population lost during the Turkish
>occupation, but also to establish military support for the Imperial Forces
>of German Nation stationed in Hungary with food supplies, materials as well
>as personnel. The Emperor believed strongly that the settlers should be a
>vital force in the defense of the land they settled and therefore every man
>had to serve as an army reservist."
>
>Similar campaigns were carried out to entice our ancestors to immigrate to
>the America's, by steel companies and such. Many US immigrants served in
>WW1, before becoming a citizen. And wasn't this mandatory?
>
>Now, Susan regarding Bohemia, Hans (excerpt)...
>"The first German colonists immediately followed the victories over the
>Turks. They were summoned primarily from the so-called Habsburg Erblanden
>(Land inherited by the Habsburg Crown). They came from Upper and Lower
>Austria, Bohemia (Bhmen), Moravia (Mhren), Bavaria (Bayern), Styria
>(Steiermark), Carinthia (Krnten) and Silesia (Schlesien). The first came
>in
>1686 and settled the regions of the mountains near Budapest."
>
>The three waves of German immigration were 1723-1726, 1763-1773 and
>1782-1787.. from the first to the last year, approximately 60+ years.
>Surely word got back to the former homelands that emigration to Hungary not
>a cake walk. But they still kept coming!!!
>
>Dan's reference "Go east young man" reminds me of the popular phrase: Go
>west young man, haven't you been told, California's full of whiskey, women
>and gold! Started out as a coined political slogan back in the early-mid
>1800's.
>
>--- "the empty spaces" of the Americas" ---
>Yes, it seems history does repeat itself.
>
>Jody
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Drew
> To: Hans Kopp
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 182
>
>
> Hans,
>
> I purposely spoke in generalities; but regret it if I was vague to the
> point of a fault. I am not really qualified to speak with authority on
> any specifics of history. The real impetus for my post was a "series
> of posts" by several DS descendants who seemed to be implying that
> their ancestors must have done something evil or experienced some
> tragedy... else they would NOT have become "Kolonisten" ...an
> assumption that you surely agree must be false. I simply wished to
> reassure them that the decision to "Go east young man" was probably a
> "noble decision" in most cases... and not an "escape from shame" or
> some such thing.
>
> I just spent a couple of hours reviewing your "chronicles." They are,
> indeed, the best I have ever seen! I understand you have published a
> book; and I am most eager to obtain a copy. Can I get a copy from
> Amazon? I have an account there. Please let me know how I can obtain
> a copy.
>
> I appreciate, and am honored by your response to my post and I humbly
> acknowledge that I have been duly chided! All the same I could not
> help being "jolted" by your reference to:
> > the empty space and the invitation by the Hungarians to work their
>land
> To me this does not sound very different than the invitation by the
> Western European monarchs to their masses referring to "the empty
> spaces" of the Americas. Fortunately for us Americans, however, "the
> plan" did not end in disaster........ yet!
>
> Best regards!
>
> Dan Drew, M.D.
> Indianapolis
>
>*****
>"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
>information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
>others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To contact the DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES list administrator, send an email to
>.
>
>To post a message to the DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES mailing list, send an email
>to .
>
>__________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>
>with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
>of the
>email with no additional text.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>View Athlete's Collections with Live Search
>http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>
>*****
>"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
>information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
>others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message








From: "jenny pittl" <>
To: <>
Subject: [DVHH] Surname Held from Bacstovaros
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:54:15 -0600
Hi All,

I've recently started up with my genealogy again and came across the email
list. Already I am recognizing names of people I have talked to in the
past! My interest right now is information about my great-grandfather,
Frank (Ferancz?) Held, born 07/24/1879. He came to the US in 1912 from
Obrovac (Borocz) with his wife Eva Tasch, and daughters Anna and Eva.
Frank's nearest relative listed on the passenger listing was his father, I
believe Ferancz Held (same first name I think) from Bacstovaros. Does
anyone know of information I can get on these two places? I've been in
contact with Wilhelm Busch regarding the Ortssippenbuch Obravac that he is
working on but does anyone know of any information from Bacstovaros that I
can get my hands on? Also, if anyone is researching the Held or Tasch
surnames I would be very interested in speaking with you.

Sincerely,

Jenny Pittl





From: "Rose Mary K Hughes" <>
To: "jenny pittl" <>,
<>
Subject: Re: [DVHH] Surname Held from Bacstovaros
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:36:04 -0500
Welcome Jenny! I hope you are able to connect with someone in research.
May you have a lovely holiday season!

Rose Mary K Hughes
W Henrietta, NY, USA
http://rmhughes.homestead.com/index.html
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/u/g/Rose-mary-K-Hughes/index.html#edit
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=keller-wagner&I11.x=32&I11.y=0
http://www.ddvh.org/semlak
----- Original Message -----
From: jenny pittl
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: [DVHH] Surname Held from Bacstovaros


Hi All,

I've recently started up with my genealogy again and came across the
email list. Already I am recognizing names of people I have talked to in
the past! My interest right now is information about my
great-grandfather, Frank (Ferancz?) Held, born 07/24/1879. He came to the
US in 1912 from Obrovac (Borocz) with his wife Eva Tasch, and daughters Anna
and Eva. Frank's nearest relative listed on the passenger listing was his
father, I believe Ferancz Held (same first name I think) from Bacstovaros.
Does anyone know of information I can get on these two places? I've been in
contact with Wilhelm Busch regarding the Ortssippenbuch Obravac that he is
working on but does anyone know of any information from Bacstovaros that I
can get my hands on? Also, if anyone is researching the Held or Tasch
surnames I would be very interested in speaking with you.

Sincerely,

Jenny Pittl

*****
"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message






To contact the DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES list administrator, send an email to
.

To post a message to the DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES mailing list, send an email
to .

__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to

with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
of the
email with no additional text.

_________________________________________________________________
WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes enter the Microsoft Office Live
Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/


This thread: