DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES-L Archives

Archiver > DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES > 2006-12 > 1165187939


From: "Henry Fischer" <>
Subject: Re: [DVHH] Name Changes - Nationality, citizenship, ethnic origin
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:18:59 -0500
References: <BAYC1-PASMTP0780BC32BF056068EE9BE0B1D80@CEZ.ICE>


Hi!

Just to add something to the discussion with regard to Franz Liszt the great
Hungarian composer who never spoke a word of Hungarian in his life. His
father was a church organist and originated in Moson County and was a member
of the Listmayer family. Guess where the name came from?. I happen to be
related to the Listmayer family who were Heidebauern, the descendants of
Franconian and Bavarian settlers that Charlemagne set out to develop the
"Land of the Fortresses" better known as the Burgenland and Western Hungary
in the tenth century to make his eastern frontiers safe from invasions along
the Danbube. Much of it is now in Austria while the other section known as
the Heideboden remained part of Hungary. Anyone who has ever crossed the
frontier from Austria to Hungary at Nickelsdorf and Hegyshalom (formerly
Strasssommerein) were in two of the Heidebauern communities, although those
in Hungary were totally cleansed of their German speaking population as part
of the expulsion ordered by the Potsdam Declaration. Ironically they were
in Hungary longer than the Magyars, but were part of "the humane transfer of
German populations" as the Declaratioin puts it. That involved fifteen
million people in Eastern Europe and two million of them lost their lives in
the process of this "humane transfer" of German populations.

Henry Fischer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Tullius" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: [DVHH] Name Changes - Nationality, citizenship, ethnic origin


Thank you, Hans, for the examples of persons claimed by more than one
country (nation? Ethnicity?). May I add a couple of possibly more
controversial names?

For any soccer fans in my age group (ouch!), Hungary had its best team in
1954 and its captain and best player was Ferenc Puskas [Google shows
3,310,000 references to his name!]. According to DS sources, he was born in
Budapest and his father was a Danube Swabian; he team mates called him
"Schwob" and he had no problem with that.

A very interesting example is the world-famous musician Franz Liszt.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Liszt
Liszt was born in the village of Doborján, near Sopron, Hungary, (now
Raiding, Austria). His baptism record, written in Latin, gives his first
name as Franciscus. He always used the German version Franz, never the
Hungarian version Ferenc....

Seems to me that he was born a Hungary-German and all Hungary-Germans are
grouped [at least by some] as Danube Swabians. Other points of view are
emphatically welcomed!

Best regards,
Nick Tullius
www.dvhh.org/alexanderhausen2



-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Hans Kopp
Sent: December 3, 2006 10:17 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [DVHH] DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 166


Hallo to everybody, it is an honor to be a contributor.

As you should know the assimilation process was an ongoing fact, since the
German population exceeded the Magyar population in particular in the larger

cities. After the equalization between Austria and Hungary in 1867 when the
Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy was formed the assimilation process became even
stronger.

Many of our ancestors actually volunteered to become hungarianized, since
career and political positions depended on it. However this hungarianization

never was too effective in rural areas where the German national identity
began to grow stronger.

Therefore the Hungarian claim such great men as Ignaz Semmelweiss the
developer of the sterilization process during childbirth, Houdini borne
outside of Budapest or Johnny Weissmüller born in Freidorf, near
Temeschburg, the Banat.
One of the biggest problems however is the fact that all of our ancestors
prior to World War I are listed as coming from Hungary and if the were
hungarianized you may never know that they were of German decent.

I have a Hungarian friend who last name is Fischer. This is as German as it
is, but he insisted he is a Hungarian until I challenged him to do a family
research and he found out that he is a Donauschwabe. And there are other
examples and regardless where your ancestors where born, Hungary, Yugoslavia

or Romania it does not make them Hungarian, Yugoslavian or Romanian. Since
this Nation denied our right to be a citizen in their country by expelling
us.

In the hope to added some historic facts

Best regards

Hans Kopp





From:
Reply-To:
To:
Subject: DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES Digest, Vol 1, Issue 166
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 01:07:01 -0700



Today's Topics:

1. Re: Name Changes - Nationality, citizenship, ethnic origin
(Rose Mary K Hughes)



From: "Rose Mary K Hughes" <>
To: <>, <>
Subject: Re: [DVHH] Name Changes - Nationality, citizenship, ethnic origin
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 21:02:42 -0500
I can only add to this discussion based on my family's experiences. I
appreciate Darlene's timeline. My maternal side was never magyarized. They

came into Hungary as Wagners and Bartolfs and remained under those German
names even though they were in quite a few villages before settling in
Semlak. My paternal side came into Hungary (Balmazujvaros) as Kellers.
When they moved to Semlak, they were still Kellers but as time passed the
last name became Pinczés. When my father and his relatives came to America
in the early 1900s they were listed on the manifests as Pinczés but very
shortly thereafter they reverted back to their German name--Keller.

Rose Mary
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Tullius
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [DVHH] Name Changes - Nationality, citizenship, ethnic
origin


Hello Darlene,

Your dates reflect very accurately the struggle for the building in
Hungary
of an ethnic Magyar state. In the Banat, the daily life of most Swabians
in
the villages was not much affected; they did their work and followed
their
customs; they had little to do with politics and only dealt with "the
authorities" as needed (for example, if they needed documents to travel
to
America). Communications were not what they are today.

The 'ethnic Germans' in the cities faced a tougher situation: surrounded
by
more Magyar culture and closing of German-language schools, many were
eventually assimilated.

Later, in the 1920s and 1930s, many returned to their 'ethnic German'
roots.


Best regards,
Nick Tullius
www.dvhh.org/alexanderhausen2



-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Darlene

De
Luco
Sent: December 2, 2006 12:35 PM
To:
Subject: [DVHH] Name Changes


This past year I have been researching the names changes for Hungary and
Austria and have made a time line, please feel free to correct any
errors and add information, my research is not complete.

1843: Register procedures for vital records were amended, all are to be
kept in Hungarian, up to this time they were either in German or Latin.

1848: German was reintroduced as the official language for the whole
Empire.

1850: Banat's Roman Catholic Bishopric issues an order that all church
registers are to be completed again in the Latin languge, this is the
case up to 1881

1867: German place names must be changed to Hungarian, it once again is
the offical language in the Banat.

1881: Hungarian is now the official language of the Roman Catholic
Church.

Darlene





*****
"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope
to
others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message



*****
"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided

information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message






To contact the DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES list administrator, send an email to
.

To post a message to the DONAUSCHWABEN-VILLAGES mailing list, send an email
to .

__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to

with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
of the
email with no additional text.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,

age, and price. Try it!
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601&tc
ode=wlmtagline




*****
"Reply-All" to the DVHH list and give a thank you to the one who provided
information for you. The acknowledgement is appreciated and offers hope to
others who are searching for clues to the lives of their ancestors.

-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe'
without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message



This thread: