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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2012-04 > 1334625023


From:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Surname Sample
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:10:23 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <EE300425-EAD2-4695-B0CB-7020CFB42328@mac.com>


Malcolm,



Our Lane's very   close match with the McAleer and McClure samples have me wondering if there was a name change in the family prior to 1690-95. In looking at the samples of  our Lane's in group 3 of the Lane DNA project at FTDNA, we  are all  pretty distinct with a 14-30 at 389i-ii, and 16-16-16-17 at the 464 set.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/lane/default.aspx?section=yresults



The McAleer and McClure samples also  match us extremely close and they too  are also 14-30 and 16-16-16-17. T he makers that seem to  have movement between our lines  are the CDY markers. In the M-222 project you can see our Lane results on page 2 ne xt to the McClure sample . The McAleer sample has chosen to keep their results private but also match me 64/67 and have the 14-30 389i-ii and 16-16-16-17 CDY's..I do know the  McAleer matches the McClure sample almost exactly.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b1c7/default.aspx?vgroup=R1b1c7&section=yresults



Based on these extremely close matches, would it be fair to say that "possibly"  sometime  during the 1600's my surname could have been changed from McAleer/McClure to La ne ? Maybe a name change after one of the 17 th century wars to mas k an identity ?   I do know that m y La ne  ancestors came from Ulster to Virginia about 1740-41 during the first famine when Ireland was locked in a deep freeze.



Any thoughts on this would be welcome!



Chris Lane







----- Original Message -----


From: "Malcolm McClure" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:42:51 AM
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Surname Sample

Chris

Your mention of the McAleers is interesting as my McClure lineage goes back in Donegal to  at least  mid 17th Century and extends into west Tyrone, where McAleers are considered indigenous. Thanks for the pointer;  I had not come across the yDNA link but will watch out for it. In my own unpublished analysis I had McAleer as a possible clan synonym but perhaps I should upgrade it. Alternative spellings I have seen include:

1. Acceptable and probable synonyms
McClure; M‘Clure; McClure; M’Clure; MacClure; Maclure; McLure; M‘Lure; McLuer; McLur; Makclure; Makcluir; Maklure; Macklur; Maklourie; McCluer; McCluir; McLuir; McLur; McClour; McCloure; McCloor; McCleur; McClewr; McClewer; McClewre; McKlewre; McKlewer; McClowre; McLewre McClurie; McClurr; Macillure; Maciloure McCuluer; McClue; Clure

 2. Possible and dubious synonyms (Misreading, mishearing, misspelling and Anglicization)

McClair; Maclair(e); Macklair; McClare; McCleir; Maclier; McLoir; McClear(e); M’Leare; Makcleare; McCleere; McClere; McCleary; McCleogh; McCrewir; McChure; McChuar; McCowr; McClorey; McClorry;   McClairne; Maleur;  Clore; Clough.


 3. Possible clan synonyms


McLeod; Mac Leod; (McCloud); O Cléirigh; O’Clery; McClery; McCleery; McAleer; McIleer

 4. Generally unacceptable supposed synonyms


McLurg; McClurg; McLune; McClune; McCune; McCluney; McLaren; McLauren; McCalore;  McCoule; McCool; McElwee;



Malcolm

 


On 16 Apr 2012, at 02:29, wrote:

>
>
> I did find that some of the McClures in Northern Ireland were actually Irish  McAleer's from County Tyrone..2 of my closest DNA matches are with a McClure from Northern Ireland, and a McAleer from County Tyrone. By looking at the DNA results, they both appear to be closely related ..My surname is Lane, and my line was also from Ireland..so I'm not really sure how I also  match them so closely at  64/67.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Malcolm McClure" <>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 6:58:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Surname Sample
>
> Alan
>
> I have a lot of information about the Ayrshire (Carrick) McClures, where in late medieval times  they were close associates of the  Cassilis Kennedy family.
> Actually the first reference to the McClures that I've seen is from 1486 in Kirkudbright.
> I am rather inclined to think the earlier name was  Irish, —possibly from O'Cleirigh but I lack supporting information for that speculation.
>
> Malcolm.
>
>
> On 15 Apr 2012, at 23:24, wrote:
>
>> Malcolm, have you done much research in Ayrshire, where the McClure surname
>> first appears?  
>>
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/04/2012 21:46:22 GMT Standard Time,  
>> writes:
>>
>> McCune's  1966 list of Scotch-irish Ancestors is interesting and in
>> reasonable accord  with my own interpretation of their origins. I would reserve
>> judgement on  whether all those surnames were indigenous the Galloway area for
>> centuries  before the 1700s. Some of the names have a distinctly Irish
>> identity and  several others could also be construed as originating in North
>> Ireland. There  has been travel between Ireland an Galloway for many millennia,
>> although of  course the use of surnames goes back only a thousand years or
>> less.
>>
>> I  have selected some candidate names with seeming Irish affinities from
>> McCune's  list for discussion:
>> Possible Irish Migrants to  Galloway?
>>
>> Adair
>>
>> Baird, Beattie
>>
>> Campbell, Cannon, Carrick,  Clark, Cormack, Cunningham
>>
>> Dun, Dunbar, Duncan
>>
>> Gilchrist,  Gillespie, Gillmour,
>>
>> Kennedy, Kilpatrick, Kyle
>>
>> McAdam, McBride,  McCall
>>
>> McClanachan, McClelland, McClure
>>
>> McConnel, McCormick,  McCrae, McCulloch
>>
>> McGhie, McGill, McGowen
>>
>> McKelvie,  McKenna
>>
>> McNab, McTaggart
>>
>> Martin, Milligan, Mulroy
>>
>> Tait,  Tagart
>>
>> Susan has said
>>
>> " I'm not certain for myself in regard to  M222 that surname is one of
>> the criteria that I would use to look at the  clade. I would rather see
>> a nearly blind study where the surnames were  kept separate from the
>> study until that data had been analyzed and the  information ready to
>> assemble with the names then matched up to the  numbers assigned to each
>> result. That would be a more honest approach, and  likely would be more
>> revealing than if surnames were a consideration from  the beginning. But
>> that is simply an opinion."
>>
>> I think there could  be merit in a wider debate about the structure of a 37
>> marker study of say,  1000 males.
>> We are seeking convergence of M222 clades at some undefinable  point in the
>> distant past.
>> If we select the blind 1000 sample from names  that have a stable history
>> in the "source " area it seems we would be more  likely to distinguish
>> branches than twigs.
>> It might well be that the  branches pointed to early migration of distinct
>> populations to the common  area, with the common M222 ancestor much father
>> back in time. However I think  we need to restrict the sampling method to
>> that possibility before attempting  to extract time estimates from a mish-mash
>> of anonymous randomised data,  albeit currently indigenous to Galloway.
>>
>> If we can develop a clearcut  rationale to justify our objectives, it will
>> be much easier to gather support  for the necessary  expenditure.
>>
>> Malcolm.
>>
>>
>>
>> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>>
>> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
>> -------------------------------
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>
>
>  R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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>
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