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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2012-04 > 1334610762


From:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Surname Sample
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 17:12:42 -0400 (EDT)


Malcolm


Thank you. I haven't come across the 1486 reference in Kirkcudbright. This
is interesting. What is your source? O'Cleirigh - maybe - if 'gh' is silent
at the end of name. If you are thinking O'Cleriigh, McCleirigh evolved
independently of Ireland in SW Scotland. Black suggests McClure Gaelic
Mcilluidhir, 'son of Odhar's servant', and then under another section for Maclure
in Glenlg and in Skye, he says it is supposed to be Mac a leora, sometimes
of Mac an leabhair, 'devote of the book'. He doesn't really add much to
it.

Alan



In a message dated 15/04/2012 22:59:28 GMT Standard Time,
writes:

Alan

I have a lot of information about the Ayrshire (Carrick) McClures, where
in late medieval times they were close associates of the Cassilis Kennedy
family.
Actually the first reference to the McClures that I've seen is from 1486
in Kirkudbright.
I am rather inclined to think the earlier name was Irish, 用ossibly from
O'Cleirigh but I lack supporting information for that speculation.

Malcolm.


On 15 Apr 2012, at 23:24, wrote:

> Malcolm, have you done much research in Ayrshire, where the McClure
surname
> first appears?
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/04/2012 21:46:22 GMT Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> McCune's 1966 list of Scotch-irish Ancestors is interesting and in
> reasonable accord with my own interpretation of their origins. I would
reserve
> judgement on whether all those surnames were indigenous the Galloway
area for
> centuries before the 1700s. Some of the names have a distinctly Irish
> identity and several others could also be construed as originating in
North
> Ireland. There has been travel between Ireland an Galloway for many
millennia,
> although of course the use of surnames goes back only a thousand years
or
> less.
>
> I have selected some candidate names with seeming Irish affinities from
> McCune's list for discussion:
> Possible Irish Migrants to Galloway?
>
> Adair
>
> Baird, Beattie
>
> Campbell, Cannon, Carrick, Clark, Cormack, Cunningham
>
> Dun, Dunbar, Duncan
>
> Gilchrist, Gillespie, Gillmour,
>
> Kennedy, Kilpatrick, Kyle
>
> McAdam, McBride, McCall
>
> McClanachan, McClelland, McClure
>
> McConnel, McCormick, McCrae, McCulloch
>
> McGhie, McGill, McGowen
>
> McKelvie, McKenna
>
> McNab, McTaggart
>
> Martin, Milligan, Mulroy
>
> Tait, Tagart
>
> Susan has said
>
> " I'm not certain for myself in regard to M222 that surname is one of
> the criteria that I would use to look at the clade. I would rather see
> a nearly blind study where the surnames were kept separate from the
> study until that data had been analyzed and the information ready to
> assemble with the names then matched up to the numbers assigned to each
> result. That would be a more honest approach, and likely would be more
> revealing than if surnames were a consideration from the beginning. But

> that is simply an opinion."
>
> I think there could be merit in a wider debate about the structure of a
37
> marker study of say, 1000 males.
> We are seeking convergence of M222 clades at some undefinable point in
the
> distant past.
> If we select the blind 1000 sample from names that have a stable
history
> in the "source " area it seems we would be more likely to distinguish
> branches than twigs.
> It might well be that the branches pointed to early migration of
distinct
> populations to the common area, with the common M222 ancestor much
father
> back in time. However I think we need to restrict the sampling method
to
> that possibility before attempting to extract time estimates from a
mish-mash
> of anonymous randomised data, albeit currently indigenous to Galloway.
>
> If we can develop a clearcut rationale to justify our objectives, it
will
> be much easier to gather support for the necessary expenditure.
>
> Malcolm.
>
>
>
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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