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From: Uncle Billy Dunbar <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Surname Sampling
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:17:52 -0400 (EDT)
References: <4E93BC79-6FC7-4EF5-BE2B-2E3DC303F3F9@mac.com>
In-Reply-To: <4E93BC79-6FC7-4EF5-BE2B-2E3DC303F3F9@mac.com>


Well I can confirm that my Ancestor to this country settled in the Lancaster, Cumberland area of Penn. I have a written record that he came from Northern Ireland 1730. I believe he had two brothers that came over too just notting saying what County they left. It Could very well have be Galloway.

Billy Dunbar


-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm McClure <>
To: dna-r1b1c7 <>
Sent: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Surname Sampling


McCune's 1966 list of Scotch-irish Ancestors is interesting and in reasonable
accord with my own interpretation of their origins. I would reserve judgement on
whether all those surnames were indigenous the Galloway area for centuries
before the 1700s. Some of the names have a distinctly Irish identity and several
others could also be construed as originating in North Ireland. There has been
travel between Ireland an Galloway for many millennia, although of course the
use of surnames goes back only a thousand years or less.

I have selected some candidate names with seeming Irish affinities from McCune's
list for discussion:
Possible Irish Migrants to Galloway?

Adair

Baird, Beattie

Campbell, Cannon, Carrick, Clark, Cormack, Cunningham

Dun, Dunbar, Duncan

Gilchrist, Gillespie, Gillmour,

Kennedy, Kilpatrick, Kyle

McAdam, McBride, McCall

McClanachan, McClelland, McClure

McConnel, McCormick, McCrae, McCulloch

McGhie, McGill, McGowen

McKelvie, McKenna

McNab, McTaggart

Martin, Milligan, Mulroy

Tait, Tagart

Susan has said

" I'm not certain for myself in regard to M222 that surname is one of
the criteria that I would use to look at the clade. I would rather see
a nearly blind study where the surnames were kept separate from the
study until that data had been analyzed and the information ready to
assemble with the names then matched up to the numbers assigned to each
result. That would be a more honest approach, and likely would be more
revealing than if surnames were a consideration from the beginning. But
that is simply an opinion."

I think there could be merit in a wider debate about the structure of a 37
marker study of say, 1000 males.
We are seeking convergence of M222 clades at some undefinable point in the
distant past.
If we select the blind 1000 sample from names that have a stable history in the
"source " area it seems we would be more likely to distinguish branches than
twigs.
It might well be that the branches pointed to early migration of distinct
populations to the common area, with the common M222 ancestor much father back
in time. However I think we need to restrict the sampling method to that
possibility before attempting to extract time estimates from a mish-mash of
anonymous randomised data, albeit currently indigenous to Galloway.

If we can develop a clearcut rationale to justify our objectives, it will be
much easier to gather support for the necessary expenditure.

Malcolm.

On 12 Apr 2012, at 15:12, Susan Hedeen <> wrote:

>
> A post from C McCown to the L21 list has a link to this which is
> interesting and in the subject of surnames and likely pertinent to
> M222 or some of the names listed below. L21 group 1426C apparently
> has a SNP! This is from his post: "McCowns believe themselves to be
> Scotch-Irish... aka Ulster Scots that came to American( VA and PA )
> in the early 1700s. Since there seem to be ties Clan MacLellan, I
> think this is a Galloway/Scot Borders type."
>
>
> You'll find several of the 1426C surname matches on this list.
> Chuck Gibson (View posts
> <http://boards.ancestry.com/authorposts.aspx?uname=Chuck+Gibson&uid=&uem=iT6K9cpDEI4R8U5VrkYzHNPh9GNjBd53&rurl=http%3a%2f%2fboards.ancestry.com%2fthread.aspx%3fmv%3dflat%26m%3d98%26p%3dlocalities.britisles.scotland.kkd.general>;)

>
> Classification: Query
>
> Posted: 18 May 1998 12:00PM GMT
>
>
> This was found in the SCOTCH-IRISH archives at rootsweb
>
> The following is an excerpt from THE ANCESTORS OF THE SCOTCH-IRISH by
> Joseph Condit McCune, published in Western Pennsylvania Historical Magazine,
> volume 49, (1966), pp. 328-329. McCune argues that not only were the
> Scotch-Irish of Presbyterian Lowland stock but that they came
> exclusively from
> the southwest region, Galloway. This was, of course, the area where the
> the Covenanters were most prevalent and, according to McCune, these people
> are the ancestors of the Scotch-Irish of America. A very interesting and
> partially convincing argument but the list of names, however intriguing,
> suggest some of the problems as well. His point is that about two thirds
> of the
> same names for Galloway appear on the 1790 census for Pennsylvania. However,
> he does not account for the fact that many of these names could also be
> English and Irish. W. John Shepherd.
>
> "The following are some of the surnames from Galloway transplanted to
> Pennsylvania anterior to the taking of the first United States Census in
> 1790-
> Adair, Agnew, Alexander, Alison, Allan, Anderson, Andrew, Arnot, Austin,
> Baird,
> Barbour, Barclay, Barton, Beattie, Beck, Beggs, Bell, Benton, Bigham,
> Bishop,
> Black, Blaine, Blair, Blake, Blythe, Boyd, Bratton, Broadfoot, Brown, Bruce,
> Bryan, Bryce, Buchanan, Burney, Byres, Caldwell, Calhoun, Campbell, Cannon,
> Carlyle, Carrick, Carruthers, Carson, Chalmers, Chambers, Charters,
> Christie,
> Clark, Clelland, Cockrane, Colvin, Connell, Cook, Cormack, Corsan, Coulter,
> Cowan, Craig, Crawford, Crumb, Cunningham, Currie, Dalrymple, Dalzell,
> Davidson, Dempster, Dicksone, Dill, Dinwiddie, Dixon, Dods, Donald,
> Donaldson,
> Dorman, Dougan, Douglas, Dun, Dunbar, Duncan, Edgar, Elliot, Erskine, Ewart,
> Ferfuson, Findlay, Fisher, Fleming, Forsythe, Fraser, French, Fullerton,
> Fulton, Galbreath, Galloway, Geddes, George, Gibson, Gilchrist, Gillespie,
> Gillmour, Gladstone, Glover, Gordon, Gowan, Gracie, Graham, Gray, Guthrie,
> Hall, Hamilton, Hanna, Harkness, Hay, Henderson, Heron, Heslop, Hope,
> Houston,
> Hunter, Hutcheson, Inglis, Innes, Ireland, Irving, Irwine, Jackson, Jamison,
> Jardine, Johnston, Kay, Keith, Kennedy, Kent, Kerr, Kilpatrick, Kincaid,
> Kinzean, Kirk, Kirkpatrick, Kyle, Laurie, Law, Lawson, Leith, Linn, Little,
> Livingston, Lockart, Lockhart, Logan, Lorimer, Lowrie, McAdam, McBride,
> McCall,
> McCallum, McCance, McCartney, McClanachan, McClean, McClellan, McClung,
> McClure, McComb, McConnel, McCormick, McCrae, McCulloch, McCune, McCutchon,
> McDougall, McDowall, McElvain, McEwen, McFadden, McGhie, McGill, McGowen,
> McIntosh, McKain, McKay, McKee, McKelvie, McKenna, McKenzie, McKnight,
> McLean,McMaster, McMillan, McMurray, McNab, McNaught, McNish, McRobert,
> McTaggart, McWhurter, McWilliam, Mair, Marshall, Martin, Matheson, Maxwell,
> Miller, Milligan, Mitchell, Moffat, Montgomery, Morison, Morton, Muir,
> Muirhead, Mulroy, Mundell, Murchie, Murdoch, Murray, Neilson, Nicoll,
> Nicholson, Orr, Osburne, Pain, Palmer, Park, Parker, Paterson, Paton,
> Pauling,
> Peacock, Pearson, Peden, Porter, Porterfield, Pott, Ramsay, Reid,
> Richardson,
> Riddick, Rigg, Robertson, Robeson, Robinson, Robison, Robson, Roger, Rose,
> Ross, Rowan, Rule, Russell, Sanderson, Scot, Semple, Shank, Sharp, Shaw,
> Shearer, Shilling, Short, Simpson, Skelly, Sloan, Smith, Spence, Steven,
> Stevenson, Stewart, Stirling, Stott, Strachan, Sturgeon, Tait, Tagart,
> Taylor,
> Telfer, Templeton, Tennen, Tennet, Thomson, Trail, Turner, Vance, Walker,
> Wallace, Wallis, Warner, Watson, Waugh, Weir, Welsh, Whitehead, Whyte,
> Wightman, Wilkie, Williamson, Wilson, Woodde, Wright, Wylie, Young,
>
> These names appeared in the Borgue Covenant, 1638; the official lists
> of testaments (wills) of Kirkcudbright; the census of Wigtown and Minnigaff,
> 1684; lists of Covenanting ministers, or lists of persons whose lives and
> estates had been forfeited."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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