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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2012-01 > 1325955289

Subject: Re: [R-M222] Nial Icon
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 11:54:49 -0500 (EST)

Here is something to consider for those who are interested in the early
history of the Cenel Conanill and Eoghan. The first clear reference in the
annals to the Cenel Conaill appears in 563, when the Cruthin hired them as
mercenaries. The AU and others record:

Cath Mona Daire Lothair for Cruithnechaibh re hUibh Néll an tuaisgirt dú a
ttorcrattar .uii. righ Cruithne um Aedh m-Brec. Baetan mac Cuind co ndibh
Cruitnibh no fig fri Cruithne et Cinel nEoghain et Conaill

no figset, conducti mercede na Lea & Ard Eolairg

Translation: The battle of Móin Daire Lothair won over the Cruithin by the
Uí Néill of the North, in which fell seven kings of the Cruithin including
Aed Brec. Baetán son of Cenn with two branches of the Cruithin fight it
against the Cruithin, and Cenél nEógain
and Cenél Conaill fought it for hire, for the Lee and Ard Eolarg.

Ainmire mac Setna and Naindid mac Duach are said to descend from Conal
Gulban and both appear to be separate kings within the Cenel Conaill. According
to the genealogies, Setna and Duach were grandsons of Conaill and
therefore great grandsons of Niall, whose obit varies depending on what theory you
follow. His death is usually assigned to some date in the 400s, when
Francis Byrne suggests Niall should have died not earlier than 450 AD.

Here is the dilemma, the Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Conaill were already
established cenels in 563. I understand, it takes a minimum of six generations
to form a cenel. In addition, there must have been a short period of
overlap with the ancestors of the Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Conaill when they
themselves were members of the mother cenel, before it subdivided.

How then can you have two cenels in 563 with the military capacity to hire
themselves out as mercenary soldiers only descend within 6 generations of
a common ancestor - Niall of the Nine Hostages?


In a message dated 06/01/2012 10:08:37 GMT Standard Time,

"Did FTDNA do away with their Nial icon for good with the recent change in

personal pages? I haven't seen it since they changed and someone just
wrote and told me it disappeared from their personal page.
I say good riddance. It just caused confusion."

Absolutely. Even on this forum, participants tend to forget that Nial (if
he really existed) allegedly came from the Roscommon area of Connacht, not
from Ulster; and he had several brothers, including Fiachra and Brion who,
again allegedly, founded the Ui Fiachrach and the Ui Briuin. The late Joe
Donohoe, who did extensive work on the latter in his Breifne Clans project,
once told me that when he excludes project members who are Airghialla-1 and
Airghialla-2, 80% of the remaining are M222. Unfortunately, I don't
believe anyone has done similar work with the Ui Fiachrach.

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