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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-12 > 1324724771

Subject: Re: [R-M222] Ulster
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:06:11 -0500 (EST)

Bernard, for the purpose of this discussion - No. Genealogically, both
O'Doherty and McLaughlin share a common ancestor in Niall of the Nine Hostages
and form a cluster in Co. Donegal. The second lies in the southwest of
Scotland and forms another cluster with no known origin or common ancestor. It
is assumed they originate in Ireland, which may or may not be case.
Following an offline discuss with Susan there is another interesting cluster in

I am not sure the claim that there will be numerous other Irish dynastic
names that are M222+ is correct and if you follow Sandy's theory about the
M222+ being nearer to 40 generations, I would struggle to see how? (I am not
saying of course I agree with this yet). I would think it is more likely
many are not, particularly, if you follow the estimated number of
haplogroups in Ireland that are not M222+.


In a message dated 24/12/2011 07:34:39 GMT Standard Time,

> [The two groups I was referring to are, O'Doherty/McLaughlin verses
> Amuligane/Grierson.

Shouldn’t this be three? The O’Doherty and McLaughlin are not the same
people. For it seem their pedigrees diverged soon after M222 came into
existence. So how do the three groups compare?

> I've wondered about that myself (McLaughlins claiming descent from the
> Cenel Eoghain). But the surname is well documented in the annals - and
> history places the surname in or around the city of Derry (in
Londonderry Co.)
> but adjacent to Donegal going back to the 1300-1400s with the mention of
> various herenaghs and Bishops of Derry.

Ireland has contemporary records back to the 6th century and as today
chiefs descend back to the chiefs of the 6th century then there should a record
of their ancestors and hence offering proof of the pedigrees.

> <Perhaps, this is why I am concerned about the number people who claim
> to know they are linked to an Irish minor clan or sept, when others have
> not yet found the genealogy to support this?]

I would be surprised if they didn’t. By the very fact Ireland has records
allowing us to trace M222+ families such as O’Doherty and McLaughlin back
to 6th Ireland and earlier. Therefore there will be numerous other Irish
dynastic names that are M222+. However there could well be 6000 such dynastic
names along in Ireland and I doubt the ability to correctly identify with
was the original Sept someone belongs to, when many Septs shared the same
Gaelic name and had many varied Anglizations.
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