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From: "Robert Reid" <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 19:04:45 -0400
References: <mailman.274.1314047701.12614.dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.274.1314047701.12614.dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>


Review of Lacey's book CENÉL CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 – 800
by Tomas ),Canann.

Cenél Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800

Brian Lacey
CENÉL CONAILL AND THE DONEGAL KINGDOMS, AD 500 – 800.
Four Courts Press, Dublin, 2006. Pp 351. Price 45 Euro. ISBN
978-1-85182-978-1.

"Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed analysis
of maternal ancestries, place names, hagiography, archaeology, and saints’
genealogies, he concludes that Cenél Conaill were more likely a Cruithin
people affiliated with the Uí Echach Coba and, perhaps, the Conaille
Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems occasioned
by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion necessarily
speculative." Paragraph 3 Tomás G. Ó Canann.


Perched high atop a narrow isthmus, the Grianán Ailig strategically guards
the great northern waterways of Lough Foyle and Lough Swilly. On a clear
day, it commands a panoramic view in all directions; in particular, the
southwestern prospect extends more than 35 miles, clean through the famed
Bernas Mór gap in the Blue Stack Mountains, to the cobalt waters of Donegal
Bay. This massive stone cashel may have been built shortly after the pivotal
battle of Clóitech in 789, both to create a more impressive caput for Cenél
nEógain and to celebrate its decisive victory over archrival Cenél Conaill
for supremacy of the territory known today as County Donegal. How the
emerging kingdom of Ailech came to be consolidated by the end of the eighth
century is the subject of an important new book by Dr Brian Lacey,
pioneering director of the Donegal Archaeological Survey, noted Columban
scholar, and distinguished historian of medieval Ulster. Why this story
matters in the larger ‘national’ picture is explained at the outset: the
first two, perhaps the first three, genuinely historical figures described
as ‘king of Ireland’ in early texts came from Cenél Conaill in Donegal. That
same people gave birth to Colum Cille and Adomnán, the most prominent Irish
clerics of the sixth and seventh centuries. Their monastery at Iona in the
Inner Hebrides, staffed mainly by monks from Donegal, quickly became a place
of enormous cultural influence. In fact, Lacey perceptively notes,
compilation of the Iona Chronicle seems to have initiated the practice of
recording annals, and thus the Donegal community in spiritual exile there
could justly be said to have invented the writing of Irish history.

The origin of early medieval Donegal, as it was understood for many
centuries, represented a carefully-built construct of two distinct phases in
Irish historiography. The earlier stratum began in the eighth century when
historians promoted the political supremacy of the Uí Néill (particularly
Cenél nEógain) in tandem with the ecclesiastical primacy of Armagh. Lacey
identifies the likely sponsors of this ambitious intellectual and propaganda
enterprise as Áed Allán (d. 743), Cenél nEógain king of Tara, and Congus (d.
750), bishop of Armagh. Their burst of literary activity involved a ruthless
redaction (Lacey likens it to ‘Stalinization’) of the early annals,
genealogies, and regnal lists that projected the political alignment of the
eighth-century back, conveniently beyond the time of memory, into the
largely undocumented fifth century. Contemporaneous with that editorial
process, scholars began designating a dozen peoples in the northwest, led
chiefly by Cenél Conaill and Cenél nEógain, under a new rubric: Uí Néill in
Tuaiscirt. Lacey collectively labels their territory ‘the Donegal kingdoms.’
Drawing on recent scholarship by Thomas Charles-Edwards, Ailbhe Mac
Shamhráin, and others, he makes a compelling case for their biological
distinctiveness from those midland peoples traditionally regarded as nepotes
Néill.

A second literary phase occurred in the thirteenth century as the newly
emergent Ó Domhnaill dynasty sponsored its own aetiology of Cenél Conaill.
That effort, incorporating earlier recensions, was codified in Eachtra
Conaill Gulban, a bloodthirsty saga recounting how Niall Noígiallach’s sons
invaded Donegal from Connacht and conquered its indigenous inhabitants (Dál
Fiatach). Lacey expertly deconstructs this fable, as well. Based on detailed
analysis of maternal ancestries, placenames, hagiography, archaeology, and
saints’ genealogies, he concludes that Cenél Conaill were more likely a
Cruithin people affiliated with the Uí Echach Coba and, perhaps, the
Conaille Muirtheimme. His position is well-reasoned, but knotty problems
occasioned by vague and contradictory sources render his conclusion
necessarily speculative. Following the seminal research of Dónall Mac Giolla
Easpaig, Niall Ó Dónaill, and others, Lacey also makes a strong case for the
separate biological identity of its constituent peoples who, according to
the medieval genealogies, encompassed a southern dynasty (Cenél nÁeda Esa
Ruaid), a western kindred (Cenél mBógaine), and a northern sept (Cenél
Lugdach), among others.

In fact, though, a newly-published DNA analysis of modern surname-bearers
demonstrates that these Cenél Conaill peoples share a distinctive haplotype
characteristic with each other and with Cenél nEógain [Laoise T. Moore et
al., ‘A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland,’ American
Journal of Human Genetics 78 (2006) 334-38]. Saliva swabs taken from bearers
of surnames originating in Cenél nÁeda Esa Ruaid (Cannon, Gallagher), Cenél
Lugdach (Boyle, Doherty, McMenamin, O’Donnell), and Cenél nEógain (Devlin,
Donnelly, Gormley, McLoughlin, O’Kane, Quinn) reveal a common genetic marker
from a single ancestor who lived about 1,730 years ago in the Irish
northwest. Lacey persuasively eliminates Niall Noígiallach as that
progenitor, but other (fictional?) candidates remain: Cana mac Luigdech
Lámfhata, Dál Fiatach leader of Sentuatha Ulaid (ECG); Echu Doimlén, father
of the Three Collas (T.F. O’Rahilly, Dáibhí Ó Cróinín); or perhaps Lacey’s
own anonymous Cruithin prince. All we know for certain is that
proto-historic Donegal was contested as ferann claidib, ‘sword-land,’
tellingly symbolised here by the Ballyshannon sword hilt (Early Iron Age)
that graces the frontispiece.

Brian Lacey’s pathbreaking study represents the mature fruit of three
decades of fieldwork and publication. He provides a fascinating synthesis of
scholarship new and old (the bibliography alone contains 240 items),
supported by a vast array of landscape photographs, references, maps,
drawings, and genealogical tables designed to ease the way for readers. His
book is densely packed with fresh insights, e.g. suggesting Mag nÍtha as the
original homeland of Cenél Conaill, locating Adomnán’s birthplace in Cenél
nÉnnai, positing Druim Tuama and Derry as boundary churches of early Cenél
Conaill, identifying Ircoir battlesite (AFM 787) as the townland of Raforker
(Ráith Ircoir?), delineating the Ballintra wetlands as the boundary between
Mag Latrain and Mag Sereth, and proposing Tory Island as initially a Cenél
nEógain foundation. Cenél Conaill and the Donegal Kingdoms forges a
brilliant new template for our evolving understanding of Irish antiquity. It
is destined to take its place as the leading reinterpretation of the
powerful Uí Néill federation and its hold on the prized kingship of Tara.

Tomás G. Ó Canann

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of

Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 5:15 PM
To:
Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267



Today's Topics:

1. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Jerry Kelly)
2. Re: MacLysaght and Woulfe (Bob Quinn)
3. Re: Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD 500-800
(Paul Conroy)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Kelly <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe
To:
Message-ID:
<>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Bob a chara,

MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall (Surnames
of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr. Patrick
Woulfe) is available at:

http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php

An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent
nevertheless.

Le gach dea-ghu? / Best,
Jerry

Treibheanna ?ireannacha
www.irishtribes.com


--- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <> wrote:

> From: Bob Quinn <>
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill?
> To:
> Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM
>
> Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names
> other than to buy the book? I had no? luck on the Internet. Regards,
> Bob
>
> Bob Quinn
> President&CEO
> Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
>
> Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI
> Manufacturer's Roundtable
> 27 Langton Lane
> Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> T:610-331-4920
> e-mail:
> Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700
> > From:
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [R-M222]??? Cen?l Maine -
> truly U? N?ill?
> >
> > Bob a chara,
> >
> > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is
> short for X Cuinn / X of Conn.? Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a
> grammatical way to say 'of Conn'.? Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.? ?
> Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn.? But the 'of' part is in Cuinn, not
> in Mac or ?.?
> >
> > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best,
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Bob Quinn <>
> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U?
> N?ill?
> > > To:
> > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM
> > >
> > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else
> thinks it is
> > > Son of Conn.
> > >
> > > Bob Quinn
> > > President&CEO
> > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> > >
> > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street
> Partners
> > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable
> > > 27 Langton Lane
> > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > > T:610-331-4920
> > > e-mail:
> > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> > >???
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >? > From:
> > > > To:
> > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100
> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly
> U?
> > > N?ill?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Bob
> > > >
> > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht
> gives for
> > > the derivation of the
> > > > surname Quinn?
> > > >
> > > > Sandy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From:
> > > > [mailto:]
> > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn
> > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly
> U?
> > > N?ill?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Quinn
> > > > President&CEO
> > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> > > >
> > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street
> Partners
> > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable
> > > > 27 Langton Lane
> > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > > > T:610-331-4920
> > > > e-mail:
> > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> > > >???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >? > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400
> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine -
> truly U?
> > > N?ill?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm interested in any resource for
> Haplotypes of
> > > the early Celts, so I'll
> > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in
> R-M222 and
> > > my Quinns/Murphys are
> > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a
> higher
> > > Scandinavain component
> > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean
> anything to
> > > anybody?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Quinn
> > > > > President&CEO
> > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> > > > >
> > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay
> Street
> > > Partners
> > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's
> Roundtable
> > > > > 27 Langton Lane
> > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > > > > T:610-331-4920
> > > > > e-mail:
> > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> > > > >???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >? > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52
> +0100
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine
> - truly
> > > U? N?ill?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bernard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a
> candidate
> > > for the origins of
> > > > McHarg/Mac
> > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you
> point me to
> > > his haplotype?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've found an interesting match
> between
> > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches
> > > > at
> > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't
> think the
> > > Quinn is from O'Quin
> > > > though. I
> > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which
> may be from
> > > McEwen of Ottir.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sandy
> > > > > >
> > > > > >???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > [mailto:]
> > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan
> > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04
> > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine
> - truly
> > > U? N?ill?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jerry,
> > > > > >?
> > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest
> in
> > > understanding Cenel Maine, however
> > > > I
> > > > > > hadn't taken the step to
> investigate the
> > > claim against Cenel Maine.
> > > > Brynes?s
> > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has
> conflicting
> > > pedigree and that closeness
> > > > to
> > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui
> Maine Fails.
> > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel
> > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate
> location
> > > distant from Ui Maine.
> > > > > >?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the
> > > > > > list,
> please send an
> > > email to
> > > >
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the
> message
> > > > >? ???
> > >? ? ? ???
> > >? ? ? ? ???
> > >???
> > > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list,
> > > > > please
> send an
> > > email to
> > > >
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the
> message
> > > >? ???
> > >? ? ? ???
> > >? ? ? ? ???
> > >???
> > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > >
> > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an
> email to
> > > >
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the
> message
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > >
> > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > > > -------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an
> email to
> > >
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> the
> > > subject and the body of the message ? ???
> > >? ? ? ???
> > >? ? ? ? ???
> > >???
> > >? R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > >
> > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > > -------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an
> email to
> > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> the
> > > subject and the body of the message
> > >
> >
> >? R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> >
> > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the
> body of the message ???
> ????????
> ?????? ???
> ?
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without
> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:17:09 -0400
From: Bob Quinn <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe
To: <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"


Thanks very much, Jerry. Regards, Bob

Bob Quinn
President&CEO
Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants

Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI
Manufacturer's Roundtable
27 Langton Lane
Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
T:610-331-4920
e-mail:
Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals










> Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:42:38 -0700
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] MacLysaght and Woulfe
>
> Bob a chara,
>
> MacLysaght is still under copyright buy Sloinnte Gaedheal Is Gall
(Surnames of the Gaeil and Gaill) by an t-Athair P?draig de Bhulbh (Fr.
Patrick Woulfe) is available at:
>
> http://www.libraryireland.com/names/contents.php
>
> An excellent book, sometimes corrected by MacLysaght, but excellent
nevertheless.
>
> Le gach dea-ghu? / Best,
> Jerry
>
> Treibheanna ?ireannacha
> www.irishtribes.com
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Bob Quinn <> wrote:
>
> > From: Bob Quinn <>
> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U? N?ill?
> > To:
> > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 12:38 PM
> >
> > Thank you, Gerry. Is there any way to get McLysacht's read on names
> > other than to buy the book? I had no luck on the Internet. Regards,
> > Bob
> >
> > Bob Quinn
> > President&CEO
> > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> >
> > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street Partners Co-Chair ACS GCI
> > Manufacturer's Roundtable
> > 27 Langton Lane
> > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > T:610-331-4920
> > e-mail:
> > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:17:21 -0700
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine -
> > truly U? N?ill?
> > >
> > > Bob a chara,
> > >
> > > Someone may have answered this already but Quinn is
> > short for X Cuinn / X of Conn. Cuinn is the genitive of Conn, a
> > grammatical way to say 'of Conn'. Mac Cuinn would be Son of Conn.
> > ? Cuinn would be Grandson of Conn. But the 'of' part is in Cuinn,
> > not in Mac or ?.
> > >
> > > Le gach dea-ghu? / Best,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 8/21/11, Bob Quinn <>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Bob Quinn <>
> > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly U?
> > N?ill?
> > > > To:
> > > > Date: Sunday, August 21, 2011, 2:23 PM
> > > >
> > > > Would like to know his opinion. Everyone else
> > thinks it is
> > > > Son of Conn.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Quinn
> > > > President&CEO
> > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> > > >
> > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street
> > Partners
> > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable
> > > > 27 Langton Lane
> > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > > > T:610-331-4920
> > > > e-mail:
> > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:52:05 +0100
> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly
> > U?
> > > > N?ill?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you or anyone else know what McLysacht
> > gives for
> > > > the derivation of the
> > > > > surname Quinn?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sandy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > [mailto:]
> > > > On Behalf Of Bob Quinn
> > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 16:29
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine - truly
> > U?
> > > > N?ill?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have 15, 12,12, on DYS 19,439,442.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Quinn
> > > > > President&CEO
> > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> > > > >
> > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay Street
> > Partners
> > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's Roundtable
> > > > > 27 Langton Lane
> > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > > > > T:610-331-4920
> > > > > e-mail:
> > > > > Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 10:06:30 -0400
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine -
> > truly U?
> > > > N?ill?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm interested in any resource for
> > Haplotypes of
> > > > the early Celts, so I'll
> > > > > be watching for feedback. I am included in
> > R-M222 and
> > > > my Quinns/Murphys are
> > > > > from Armagh. The Davidski studies indicate a
> > higher
> > > > Scandinavain component
> > > > > for me than for most Irish. Does this mean
> > anything to
> > > > anybody?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Quinn
> > > > > > President&CEO
> > > > > > Quinn Specialty Chemical Consultants
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Partner at Bay Street Investors/Bay
> > Street
> > > > Partners
> > > > > > Co-Chair ACS GCI Manufacturer's
> > Roundtable
> > > > > > 27 Langton Lane
> > > > > > Newtown Square, Pa, 19073
> > > > > > T:610-331-4920
> > > > > > e-mail:
> > > > > > Profile:
> > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobquinnspecialtychemicals
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:48:52
> > +0100
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine
> > - truly
> > > > U? N?ill?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bernard
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you think the MagCargamni is a
> > candidate
> > > > for the origins of
> > > > > McHarg/Mac
> > > > > > > Giolla Chairge? Also, can you
> > point me to
> > > > his haplotype?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've found an interesting match
> > between
> > > > Ewing and a Quinn, with matches
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > DYS 19,439,442 = 15,13,11. I don't
> > think the
> > > > Quinn is from O'Quin
> > > > > though. I
> > > > > > > think he's from Mackquein, which
> > may be from
> > > > McEwen of Ottir.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sandy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > [mailto:]
> > > > On Behalf Of Bernard Morgan
> > > > > > > Sent: 21 August 2011 07:04
> > > > > > > To: dna-r1b1c7
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cen?l Maine
> > - truly
> > > > U? N?ill?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jerry,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course I have a vested interest
> > in
> > > > understanding Cenel Maine, however
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > hadn't taken the step to
> > investigate the
> > > > claim against Cenel Maine.
> > > > > Brynes?s
> > > > > > > argument - that Cenel Maine has
> > conflicting
> > > > pedigree and that closeness
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > Ui Maine means that they are Ui
> > Maine Fails.
> > > > For Dobbs shows that "Cenel
> > > > > > > Maine" originates in a seperate
> > location
> > > > distant from Ui Maine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the
> > > > > > > list,
> > please send an
> > > > email to
> > > > >
> > > > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> > > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the
> > message
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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> > send an
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> > message
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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> > > > > please send an
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> > > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> >
> >
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> >
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 17:14:38 -0400
From: Paul Conroy <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenel Conaill And the Donegal Kingdoms, AD
500-800
To:
Message-ID:
<CA+2t2c5RZG=>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

John,

BTW, I just noticed something in your link to Connachta Clans:
http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/connachta.htm

It lists:
*McConroi = King*

This Gaelic name is also translated as "*Conroy*" of course, as well as
Conry, Connery and so on. Did you compile this list yourself or got it from
some other source?

More here:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Conroy/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

Cheers,
Paul

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Bernard Morgan
<>wrote:

>
> > Here are a few quotes from Lacey's book. He believes the northern Ui
> > Neill (Cenel Conaill, Cenel Eoghain and Cenel Enda) did not move
> > north
> into
> > Donegal as stated by all Irish historians but were Cruithin,
>
> One way to answer to the question is whether they share the same mutation.
>
> In ysearch.org sometime back I found Conlon NM4WF from Belfield, Co.
> Westmeath who is M222+. Belfield is near Gaybrook and is within the
> former lands of Clann Enna mac Laoghaire. The O'Conlon (O Caindelbain)
> are the senior branch of Clann Enda mac Laogaire and of Cenel Laogaire
> in Midi. So is Cenel Laogaire of the Southern Ui Neill M222+?
>
>
> > From a DNA standpoint, I'm not sure we can yet say the northern and
> > southern Ui Neill were related by blood in descent from Niall. Most
> > of
> the DNA
> > we possess is either Connachta or northern Ui Neill in origin. Or
> > just
> plain
> > of unknown origin. There is some in the south, O'Mulloys and
> > Geoghegans, I think the Trinity study largely skipped over southern
> > Ui Neill
> surnames.
> > In the following list I only see a few that might be southern Ui Neill.
> >
> > (O?)Gallagher (12),
> > (O?)Boyle (9), (O?)Doherty (5), O?Donnell (4), O?Connor (3), Cannon
> > (3), Bradley (2), O?Reilly (2), Flynn (2), (Mc)Kee (2), Campbell
> > (1), Devlin (1), Donnelly (1), Egan (1), Gormley (1), Hynes (1),
> > McCaul (1), McGovern (1), McLoughlin (1), McManus (1), McMenamin
> > (1), Molloy (1), O?Kane (1), O?Rourke (1), and Quinn (1).
> >
> > Molloy might be one. McLoughlin another if the O Mailsechlainns of
> > Meath were targeted. But that also could be MacLochlainn of Donegal.
>
> The Trinity report did not investigate the existance of M222+ amongst
> the Southern Ui Neill?
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
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> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>


------------------------------



End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 267
******************************************



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