DNA-R1B1C7-L ArchivesArchiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-08 > 1313936004
From: Iain Kennedy <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 14:13:24 +0000
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. However we need to distinguish between dates of manuscripts and estimates of dates when their original sources might have been written. There is no 597 AD manuscript such as you are implying, it exists in transcription from the 11th century. I apologise if people on this list don't think this distinction matters. Is it a totally accurate transcription without embellishments or errors?
> This is one of the earliest sources (not written 8th-10th centuries) of
> Colum Cille's genealogy at such an early date. Most experts don't know what
> to do with it but think its likely around 600 AD before Aed's death if he so
> commissioned it.
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:15:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260
> Please let me state, I am no expert on this but was probably written before
> 596 since that was the date Aed died, King of Cenel Conaill. Aed that
> commissioned the work, Amrae Coluim Cille, being his relative. You wanted
> reference to Conall Gulban being the son of Niall. We all know it can't be
> Conal Cremthanne as he is of the Southern Ui Neill. As we know, Colum Cille
> died ~ 593 AD. Aed was the great-grandson of Fergus and Colum Cille was the
> grandson of Fergus. As the poem relates, Fergus was the son of Conall, son
> of Neill. This can be googled at
> Amra Of St Columba
> PREFACE TO THE AMRA OF ST. COLUMBA.
> The place for the Amra usque in finein, i.e. the bit of land that is between
> Fene in UI Tigernan in Meath up to Dun na n-Airbed in the district of
> Masraige eastward of Irarus, or of Chechtraige Slecht from Breifne of
> Connaught; i.e. for Dallan.
> [For] Colum Cille son of Feidlimid, son of Fergus, son of Conall, son of
> Neill, Dallan wrote this. Now this is the third cause for which Colum Cille
> came, viz. a refusal that Ireland's kings around Aed mac Ainmerech put on
> Ireland's poets; for it was owing to the multitude of the poets and to their
> burdensomeness that Ireland's men were not able to find out what to do with
> them; for the person who was satirised there, if he did not immediately die,
> there used to grow poisonous ulcers upon him, till he was conspicuous to
> everybody, and till there was deformity upon him always; but upon the poet
> himself grew the ulcers, and he used to die immediately, if it was without
> fault that he satirised. Now the poets were at Ibar of Cinntracht in the
> territory of Ulster, for Ulster's king gave them 'coigny' three years, or
> (may be) one whole year there. And it was then they set themselves to invent
> stories, but they were wholly unable (to do it) as they used to tell them;
> but to impose them on the wholly rude race among whom they were,
> ready-tongued poets concocted the lying fables. Well, a message came from
> Ireland's poets to Colum Cille, to the effect that it was to them he should
> come before he went to Druim Cetta, the place where the kings were who
> refused them. And so they invoked God's name upon the head of Colum Cille
> and of the Christian faith ... was brought under his protection to Druim
> Cetta. There came afterwards Colum Cille as he came from his boat, seven
> twenties his number (of followers), ut poeta dixit:
> Forty priests his number,
> twenty bishops lofty power
> at the psalm-singing without dispute,
> fifty deacons, thirty students.
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 3:00 AM
> Subject: DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: Another theory on Connachta origins (Yair Davidiy)
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:28:22 +0200
> From: Yair Davidiy <>
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Another theory on Connachta origins
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> At 04:56 AM 8/21/2011, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 8/19/2011 2:26:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > writes:
> >I've no idea where M222 originated, but I'd speculate it was among the
> >Belgae tribes of the Rhine...
> M222 is present on the Continent, especially in the west.
> Some of it may originate form Irish immigrants many of whom did go to
> Others are probably local.
> Has anybody done any work on this??
> Do the family names say anything?
> Are there local concentrations??
> Yair Davidiy
> End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
|Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260 by Iain Kennedy <>|