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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-08 > 1313928509


From: Iain Kennedy <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill?
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 12:08:29 +0000
References: <1fb12.c03ef40.3b81f796@aol.com>,<BLU116-W11C1219C593298547F7E76A92C0@phx.gbl>,<000001cc5ff7$398107a0$ac8316e0$@com>
In-Reply-To: <000001cc5ff7$398107a0$ac8316e0$@com>


Sandy,
I wouldn't want to comment from a linguistic point of view. Aed Slaine is mentioned in several places by Hughes whose interest was in locating where various sources were written and what political motives lay behind their entries. 
'the early annals were interested in the Ui Neill overlords, but they were especially interested in the descendants of Aed Slaine. They were part of the southern Ui Neill, some of them were among the overlords, but some were minor kings of Brega, the area which is now Co. Louth and the east of Meath'.
The other place he is discussed is in the section on Muirchu's Life of St Patrick which survives in a transcription in the Book of Armagh but was actually written a century earlier, c. 700-ish. This source doesn't seem to have such a good reputation for accuracy as Adomnan (and strictly speaking isn't an original anyway).
'One, at least, of Muirchu's aims was to attach Armagh to the Ui Neill, who were now clearly in the ascendant... the future of Armagh had to lie with the Ui Neill, as Muirchu's Life recognised. The Ui Neill overlords between 658 and 695 were all Brega kings, descendants of Aed Slaine, and it is interesting that the annals are concerned with that area, where Armagh later had her own steward. The written sources for the Ui Neill annal entries may go back to this period in the later seventh century when Armagh was accumulating material to support her own claims and was anxious to link herself with Ui Neill power'.
Iain





----------------------------------------
> From:
> To:
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 12:41:10 +0100
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill?
>
> Iain
>
> Do you know much about Slaine of Brega?
>
> Perhaps a wild guess, but how about
>
> Donnshleibhe/Slaine/Slavens?
>
> Adamnan also interests me. The Cain of Adomnain was also known as the Law of
> Adomnan (Oxford DNB). Could some Cains or variants have derived their
> surname from the Cain of Adomnain? Could the Lag in Lagman come from the
> same source? DYS446=15 is present in Lamont, Cain variants and Slavens. The
> M222 modal value is 13. Speculative, I know, but if the DNA ties in with the
> onomastics, there may be something in it.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy
> Sent: 21 August 2011 11:05
> To:
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill?
>
>
> I've been going through all the early Irish sources trying to identify all
> the ones that are likely to have onomastic information in them, particularly
> before the earliest surviving annals (Inisfallen c. 1090). I'm using
> Kathleen Hughes' book 'Early Christian Ireland: Introduction to the sources'
> and the chapters on Manuscripts and the Irish language in volume 1 of the
> New History of Ireland. Most of the early surviving material is purely
> religious in nature but possibly the first that discusses the Ui Neill is
> Adamnan's Vita Columbae which can be read on the UCC site and exists in an
> MS from around 713 AD. This is what Hughes says in part:
> 'amidst the prophesies, miracles and visions Adamnan does convey a
> surprising amount of information. .. we hear from Adamnan of the Dal Riadic
> king Conall, his cousin king Aedan and of Aedan's sons, one of whom Eochaid,
> succeeded; of the Cenel Conaill king Aed and his son Domnanll, both Ui Neill
> overlords; of Aed Slaine of Brega, also overlord of the Ui Neill... it is
> the Life, not the annals, which tells us that the Dal Riadans fought in the
> battle of Mag Rath, a major landmark in the spread of the Ui Neill power and
> contraction of Ulster.'
> I don't think any earlier MS have anything useful to us and I'm not even
> sure any MS physically survives from the time that Niall himself lived?
>
> Iain
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From:
> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 01:54:31 -0400
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cenél Maine - truly Uí Néill?
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know if there is a really early source available somewhere
> > which mentions Niall or his sons?
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> >
> > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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