DNA-R1B1C7-L ArchivesArchiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-08 > 1313902611
From: Susan Hedeen <>
Subject: [R-M222] R1b-M222 Threads, New
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 00:56:59 -0400
In reply to John: The link sent to you was in regard to a question that
you posed to me about an irregularity you believed you viewed on some
Scottish Clan web site. I cautioned you at the time that not all the
information found in some of these web sites was either accurate nor
full of explanations, nor the histories complete etc. and I stated that
I would send you some information. I've some which I have intended to
pdf to you but haven't gotten around to it yet.
The question/comment you posed to me had to do with Scottish Clans. *I
simply sent you a link which has interesting information*, however I did
*not *discuss or mention either Irish Septs *NORanything else
Irish*. So, I am perplexed regarding your comment below.
In regard to the link that you sent me, it sent me to an advertisement.
I never got into the page you intended for me to look at.
Be that as it may, regarding your comments other, frankly, I believe
that if you are going to comment on any one's posts that you keep the
post in context rather than pull a paragraph here or there to reply to.
In general I have found some of your replies using this method missing
the point of the posts (not just mine), sometimes nearly
confrontational, and otherwise also contradicting your self in in regard
to conversations elsewhere.
The point here is, it could very well be that the reason you may be
confused or not understand someone's premise is that you have this habit
of pulling a paragraph here or there out of someone's communication
thereby taking it out of context and then ambush the person with what I
would characterize your authority to disagree.
Well it is perfectly fine for you to disagree and share your opinions as
I would assume everyone else in the group is entitled as well, but there
are better ways to go about it.
I believe we all are interested, obviously, in M222 or we would not be
in the group. The comment of not caring was not that I don't care about
*learning the truth as I am *(as I believe all of us are), but the fact
that *none of us know the truths yet*.
You and Bill yourselves have commented that the current popular opinions
are lacking, made too hastily, and there is lots of work to be done in
the hope to come to any conclusion. *If you yet agree with yourself,
well you will note that I have consistently agreed with you.*
But in the discussion regarding origins of M222 which many suspect yet
none are sure (*even Wilson has qualified his *enthusiasm) among some
there is such emotional investment in it being in Ireland that all
further investigation seems not even a matter of consideration.
For the record, I am not anti-Nial. I am not anti anything beyond to
jumping to conclusions on evidence which is not yet complete.
I believe that any and all methods of investigation are valid and should
be employed; however, I also believe that many of these answers are
going to come from a *comprehensive look *at the *values revealed by all
the testing results to date* coupled with *more testing which need be
done, broadening the geographical areas to include those environs other
than where we currently find the highest concentrations,* and *following
migration patterns of the ancestors of the currently tested * M222
As an example, our M222 matches are bringing up environs of origin
other than Ireland and Scotland. Switzerland most mentioned other than
Scotland first followed by Ireland, which percentage wise when
considering the numbers tested claiming Ireland is statistically the
same as that of Switzerland in the ancestral origin matches.
So why is that? Did an Irishman or Scot move to Switzerland and
procreate leaving M222 behind, or is M222 there because it may have been
left when the migrations east to west were occurring? I do not know the
answer to that, but I would think it would be good to investigate it
further. Hypothetically, if it were left behind during east to west
migrations, then quite likely it is even older than what you & Bill
estimated when you suggested it was formed up in Scotland.
Other M222 carriers are getting M222 matches from France, Germany and
Switzerland and Scandinavia as well.
Once the certain migration & residence data is exhausted, beyond a
certain point migrations nearly have to be extrapolated and assumed to
some extent, and likely the surname analysis will help define some of
I hope this clarifies thing for you...Susan
On 8/20/2011 9:54 PM, wrote:
> In a message dated 8/20/2011 1:10:22 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> You should find this site interesting & informative.
> That is very much old hat. The link I sent you on Scottish surnames
> said much the same thing.
> There is a difference between Irish septs and Scottish clans and their
> supposed septs. You would know that if you studied Irish history and
> studied a few of the Irish sept DNA projects. I'd recommend all of
> the Trinity college articles on the M222 web site as a starting
> point. I find your anti-Niall rants ill informed and tedious. No one
> in Ireland really cares if they are descended from Niall or not. I
> don't. But that's what the genealogies say so if you'll pardon us we
> will continue to investigate the possibility.
|[R-M222] R1b-M222 Threads, New by Susan Hedeen <>|