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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-08 > 1313739965


From: Scott Devenny <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 249
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 03:46:05 -0400
References: <mailman.33.1313737205.31258.dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1313737205.31258.dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>


Okay I'll really go out on a limb and suggest that Devenny, formerly DeVenny
was perhaps DeVeni or " of the Venicones"

Scott

On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 3:00 AM, <> wrote:

>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Venicones ()
> 2. Re: Venicones (Don Milligan)
> 3. Re: Venicones ()
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:23:34 -0400 (EDT)
> From:
> Subject: [R-M222] Venicones
> To:
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I just stumbled on a well done history web site that mentions the Venicones
> and Venicnii of Scotland and Donegal.
>
> _http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm_
> (http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm)
>
> This writer definitely sees a connection between the Venicones of the
> eastern lowlands of Scotland and the Venicnii of NW Ireland (Donegal). He
> further believes the names are derived from the Veneti of Gaul. The author
> gives a completely different interpretation of the name from other writers
> I've
> seen which deduce the
> -cones in Venicones from Cu or hound and Veni from Feni.
>
> The main reason I've always found this interesting is the fact that M222 is
> so prevalent in NW Ireland and especially in Donegal. The names date from
> Ptolemy's maps of Ireland and Scotland c. 150 AD. Irish historians tell
> us the sons of Niall weren't even in NW Ireland at that date - supposedly
> they migrated northward from their base in Connacht during or after the
> time
> of Niall (c. 400-450 AD). But perhaps Irish history isn't accurate.
>
> I found the name Venicones in particular interesting because of the
> possibility that -cones somehow referred to Cu or hounds in Irish - which
> would
> be Con in the genitive form found in a construction like feni (people) and
> Con (of the hounds). And wondered if that could possibly have something
> to
> do with Conn, the ancestor of the Ui Neill and Connachta in Ireland, the
> famous Conn of the Hundred Battles in Irish mythology. If this author is
> right than that possibility seems fairly remote.
>
> But we still are left with the oddity of two probably related tribes in
> Ireland and Scotland and the fact that the major hotspot for M222 in
> Ireland
> is found in the old territory of the Venicnii.
>
> I hesitated to make too much of this previously because until now no major
> scholar or site connected the two tribal names. Many over the years had
> noticed the similarity but none were willing to venture an opinion on
> whether
> both were the same tribal name.
>
> The author believes the Veneti, after their defeat in Gaul by the Romans,
> could have come to both Scotland and Ireland in ships.
>
> "One could easily postulate that the survivors of the Roman conquest of the
> Veneti in Gaul climbed into their boats and settled in Fife and Donnegal.
> And the rebuilt tribe that occupied Fife continued the fight."
>
> According to the author, the territory of the Venicones later was known as
> Verturiones (Fortriu),
>
> "Once beaten in Fife by the renewed Roman attack on them, some of them
> apparently joined the Roman side, and were later rewarded with the
> Deceangli/Gangani territory in what is now north-west Wales, which the new
> owners
> promptly named after their tribe."
>
> "circa 390 - At the request of local Roman government, possibly by Coel Hen
> (Old King Cole - see the Kings of Northern Britain), a branch of Romanised
> Venicones (Veneti) move from Manau in the northern Gododdin (Votadini)
> kingdom, to the north and west coast of what is now Wales. The territory
> is
> given to them on the condition they expel the Irish (Scotti) and defend
> it."
>
> He ends with:
>
> "One can envision a possible migration of Veneti from the Vistula by sea to
> Armorica. Then a flight of survivors from Armorica to Fife in Scotland and
> Donnegal in Ireland. Then Romanised Veneti of Fife move into western and
> northern Wales and found the kingdoms of Gwynedd and Ceredigion."
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 18:32:38 -0700
> From: "Don Milligan" <>
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Venicones
> To: <>
> Cc: MARK MILLIGAN <>,
> Message-ID: <008e01cc5e0f$e2b11c00$a8135400$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW "THINKING OUT OF THE BOX" COMES MORE EASILY TO
> THE
> "ANCIENT CELTS", LIKE SOME OF US!
>
> A FEW YEARS AGO, I EXCHANGED SOME EMAILS WITH ALAN, SUPPORTING THE IDEA
> THAT
> IT LOOKED LIKE THE "VENICONES" OF BOTH IRELAND AND SCOTLAND WERE SOMEHOW
> CONNECTED.
>
> I RECALL ALAN AND I DISCUSSED IT, AND LIKELY SHARED COPIES OF SOME OF OUR
> EMAILS WITH YOU.
>
> NOW, DUE TO OUR "EVOLUTION IN THINKING, GROWTH, AND DISCOVERIES", WE CAN
> SEE
> THAT SOME OF US WERE "BEATING AROUND THE BUSH" OF RECOGNIZING EARLY M-222+
> FOLK, IN SCOTLAND, WHO WERE CONNECTED WITH EARLY M-222+ IN IRELAND! PLUS,
> THE POSSIBLY OF M-222+ AMONG SOME OF THE WELSH TRIBES!! GOD LOVE US!!
>
> AH, " I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING", A PLAY ON THE MOVIE
> EXPRESSION" "AH I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM" IN THE MORNING, FROM THAT
> FAMOUS FILM "APOCALYPSE NOW"! :-) :-)
>
> DON M
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 5:24 PM
> To:
> Subject: [R-M222] Venicones
>
> I just stumbled on a well done history web site that mentions the Venicones
> and Venicnii of Scotland and Donegal.
>
> _http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm_
> (http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesBritain/RomanVenicones01.htm)
>
> This writer definitely sees a connection between the Venicones of the
> eastern lowlands of Scotland and the Venicnii of NW Ireland (Donegal). He
> further believes the names are derived from the Veneti of Gaul. The author
> gives a completely different interpretation of the name from other writers
> I've seen which deduce the -cones in Venicones from Cu or hound and Veni
> from Feni.
>
> The main reason I've always found this interesting is the fact that M222 is
> so prevalent in NW Ireland and especially in Donegal. The names date from
> Ptolemy's maps of Ireland and Scotland c. 150 AD. Irish historians tell us
> the sons of Niall weren't even in NW Ireland at that date - supposedly they
> migrated northward from their base in Connacht during or after the time of
> Niall (c. 400-450 AD). But perhaps Irish history isn't accurate.
>
> I found the name Venicones in particular interesting because of the
> possibility that -cones somehow referred to Cu or hounds in Irish - which
> would be Con in the genitive form found in a construction like feni
> (people)
> and Con (of the hounds). And wondered if that could possibly have
> something to do with Conn, the ancestor of the Ui Neill and Connachta in
> Ireland, the famous Conn of the Hundred Battles in Irish mythology. If
> this author is right than that possibility seems fairly remote.
>
> But we still are left with the oddity of two probably related tribes in
> Ireland and Scotland and the fact that the major hotspot for M222 in
> Ireland
> is found in the old territory of the Venicnii.
>
> I hesitated to make too much of this previously because until now no major
> scholar or site connected the two tribal names. Many over the years had
> noticed the similarity but none were willing to venture an opinion on
> whether both were the same tribal name.
>
> The author believes the Veneti, after their defeat in Gaul by the Romans,
> could have come to both Scotland and Ireland in ships.
>
> "One could easily postulate that the survivors of the Roman conquest of the
> Veneti in Gaul climbed into their boats and settled in Fife and Donnegal.
> And the rebuilt tribe that occupied Fife continued the fight."
>
> According to the author, the territory of the Venicones later was known as
> Verturiones (Fortriu),
>
> "Once beaten in Fife by the renewed Roman attack on them, some of them
> apparently joined the Roman side, and were later rewarded with the
> Deceangli/Gangani territory in what is now north-west Wales, which the new
> owners promptly named after their tribe."
>
>
>
> "circa 390 - At the request of local Roman government, possibly by Coel Hen
> (Old King Cole - see the Kings of Northern Britain), a branch of Romanised
> Venicones (Veneti) move from Manau in the northern Gododdin (Votadini)
> kingdom, to the north and west coast of what is now Wales. The territory
> is
> given to them on the condition they expel the Irish (Scotti) and defend
> it."
>
> He ends with:
>
> "One can envision a possible migration of Veneti from the Vistula by sea to
> Armorica. Then a flight of survivors from Armorica to Fife in Scotland and
> Donnegal in Ireland. Then Romanised Veneti of Fife move into western and
> northern Wales and found the kingdoms of Gwynedd and Ceredigion."
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> -------------------------------
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> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:29:55 -0400 (EDT)
> From:
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Venicones
> To:
> Message-ID: <>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/18/2011 8:35:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> writes:
>
> A FEW YEARS AGO, I EXCHANGED SOME EMAILS WITH ALAN, SUPPORTING THE IDEA
> THAT
> IT LOOKED LIKE THE "VENICONES" OF BOTH IRELAND AND SCOTLAND WERE SOMEHOW
> CONNECTED.
>
> I RECALL ALAN AND I DISCUSSED IT, AND LIKELY SHARED COPIES OF SOME OF OUR
> EMAILS WITH YOU.
>
> Don, I remember Alan and yourself discussing the Venicones and Venicniis.
> In fact you are the ones who brought it to my attention in the first
> place. I think I didn't back it wholeheartedly at the time because it
> didn't fit
> with the Irish history I knew of the sons of Niall. But now that I think
> about it more I'm not sure. Maybe the sons of Niall had no need to move
> northwest into Donegal because they were already there.
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> End of DNA-R1B1C7 Digest, Vol 5, Issue 249
> ******************************************
>


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