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From: Charles Cain <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Ó Catháin
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 15:01:58 -0400
References: <000c01cc3358$41a67b70$c4f37250$@att.net>
In-Reply-To: <000c01cc3358$41a67b70$c4f37250$@att.net>


Jerry

A sound file pronouncing O'Cathain would be helpful.

From readings, my guess is that the evolution into English went
something like:

O'Cathain....O'Cahan....O'Kane....O'Cain....Cain

Family history says my ancestor "Mikel O'Cain" came from Ireland in
1740 to New Jersey. My thinking on an O'Cathain origin of "Cain" comes
from DNA matches to O'Cathains in Ulster (Derry) and DNA matches to
the McHenry surname, historically related to the O'Cathains. It would
be interesting to be convinced otherwise (maybe Sandy can help), but
that's my working hypothesis. A link to Scotland would be interesting.

I also assume the evolution of the name into English came after the
Plantation in 1600 when the clan must have fallen on very hard times.
It was 140 years from the Plantation to immigration to New Jersey.

I internet searched (Google) on Cooey-na-Gall O'Cathain and found, for
what it is worth, the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Cahan

wherein is says the translation is


"Cooey-na-Gall" means "Terror of the Stranger."

I had assumed from other readings that it meant something more like

"under influence of foreigners"

or something similar.

Apparently the O'Cathains had been involved in reformation of the
Irish church along more continental lines.

The link

http://ulsterman3.tripod.com/Tomb_Dungiven.htm

suggests the O'Cathain in question had a daughter who married a "
MacDonald Lord of the Isles" (discussed earlier here?) which further
indicates foreign influences.

So I assume you can now give us what is probably the correct Irish spelling?

Thanks for your interest.

Charles








Quoting Jerry Kelly <>:

> A Chathail a chara / Hi Charles,
>
>
>
> In Ó Catháin, the th is pronounced as an h. In most dialects á is
> pronounced like aw. But in Ulster, it's usually ah (although there is one
> dialect variation I know of).
>
>
>
> The result is that Catháin is pronounced as 2 syllables rather than one,
> with even stress across the two syllables. (Originally stress is on the
> first syllable in Ulster Irish but the accent mark on the a in the second
> syllable evens out the stress.)
>
>
>
> Would you have the Irish spelling on Cooey Na Gaal? Sorry to say that
> this anglicization makes it impossible to identify his real name.
>
>
>
> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best,
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press
>
> www.druidpress.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Charles Cain
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:54 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] 111-Marker RESULTS
>
>
>
>
>
> As one of the "Cain/Kanes" mentioned by Sandy (regarding off-modal matches
> in the trans-67 markers), let me make several comments:
>
>
>
> 1.The O'Kane history is recounted in some detail in a book by T.M.
>
> Mullin and J.E. Mullan titled "The Ulster Clans."
>
>
>
>
>
> 2. At least one origin of the McHenry surname is dated in this book to the
> early 1400s. Henry O'Cathain was the son of Dermot who died in 1428.
> Dermot's father was Cooey Na Gaal O'Cathain (have to like that name!).
>
>
>
>
>
> 3. Because of this reference, and because the largest non-Cain group of
> matches I find on FTDNA are the McHenrys, I am unsure of Sandy's hypothesis
> regarding a divorce between the McHenrys and O'Kanes.
>
> Whatever you find Sandy, I am really interested.
>
>
>
> 4. And finally, since my first North American ancestor arrived in 1740, I am
> a little rusty in the old language. So, how do you pronounce "O'Cathain?" Is
> the "th" silent?
>
>
>
> Charles Cain
>
>
>
>
>
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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