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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-04 > 1302261582


From: "Sandy Paterson" <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cowan
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 12:19:42 +0100
References: <247b3.59606b24.3acf6bba@aol.com><BLU116-W24DC064F176DD5FCFAA5DAA9A70@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BLU116-W24DC064F176DD5FCFAA5DAA9A70@phx.gbl>


A friend of mine who lives in Edinburgh has offered to try to obtain a copy
(perhaps photograph it if permitted). I think I'll take him up on it.

Yes, it's a pity about the chemicals used.

But I wonder whether 'lord of Carrick' isn't just the way one particular
individual was known, rather than a title bestowed by way of a royal
charter? If you look for instance on page 12 of 'An Inventory of Lamont
Papers', the entry dated 17 February 1432 includes a reference to

"...Robert Lawmanson, lorde of Inneryne,..."

This refers to Robert, son of Duncan, son of John, son of Malcolm, son of
Laumon, son of Ferchar. Duncan was the 4th Chief of Lamont, Robert was 5th.

As I'm sure you know, the Lamont papers are a collection of legal records in
the public domain. I'm not aware of the existence of any Royal Charter
bestowing the title 'lorde of Innerynne" upon Robert, but that's how he was
known in legal documents. (I think a Royal Charter does exist for a John
Lamont, also Lord of Inneryne, but that's dated towards the end of the 16th
century).

Turning to the 'lord of Carrick', I suspect that this refers to a Lamont,
not a Kennedy. And maybe the 'lorde' was merely the way he was known.
Carrick Castle in Argyllshire was owned by Lamonts until 1368 when it passed
to Campbells.

I'll let you know what develops about MS1450.


Sandy




-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy
Sent: 08 April 2011 10:52
To:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cowan


I could go and have a look at the original in Edinburgh since I'm rather
sceptical about the whole reference, not just the personal name but the
non-existent title 'lord of Carrick'. But this physical descripton from
Wikipedia isn't encouraging:

'The quality of the text of the genealogies is very poor; in some places the
writing degrades into scratches and scribbling. Other stains and rubbing
marks have also deteriorated the manuscript; these are derived from the
forming of the front and back covers. In the 19th century, the eminent
Scottish historian William Forbes Skene, in an attempt to render portions of
the text more legible, added chemicals to the portions of text which were
difficult to read. The unfortunate result was that brown, green, and blue
stains appear on the manuscript. In some cases these stains improve the
legibility of the text, but they also prevent any examination under
ultra-violet light.'


Iain






> From:
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 15:34:18 -0400
> To:
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Cowan
>
> In a message dated 4/7/2011 3:31:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> writes:
>
> I would say it looks more like a rendering of Kenneth myself but
> coupled with the Carrick placename, its hard to say. Eric is quite
> unusual at this time too, it doesn't seem to occur once in the POMS
> database covering names 1093-1286 and never used by the Carrick
> Kennedys that I am aware of.
>
>
>
> I wondered about the Eric name myself. Skene transcribed it as "Eiri."
> In the MS.1450 translation the name "Eiri." it is still Eiri in Celtic
> Scotland but now translated as "Eric.". The only similar name I can
think of
> is Einri generally rendered as Henry. I don't know if that name was used
by
> the Kennedys of Carrick or not.
>
>
> I suspect the name is a mis-transcription by Skene.
>
>
> Johnm
>
>
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
> -------------------------------
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