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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2011-03 > 1301227704


From:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] McHarg
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:08:24 EDT


John, there was a family called the 'de Carricks', who descended from
Fergus's grandson, Duncan, earl of Carrick. Some of this family are believed to
have taken the name MacNeill in Wigtownshire or Neilson. This is a long
shot, but one I am looking at.

I have four MacDowall results of which three have at CDYa+b = 36-37 + 37.
These values are different from the cluster I am looking at, do you find a
similar pattern in other surnames these values?

Alan


In a message dated 24/03/2011 20:17:59 GMT Standard Time,
writes:

In a message dated 3/24/2011 9:58:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
writes:
However M222+ and the descendants of Somerled of Argyll does not match
current realty?


That would be a different Somairle in the line of Fergus of Galloway (I
think). The name was fairly common at the time. That might be way the
Irish
annals have two different death dates for Somerled in the McDonald line.

To me Fergus of Galloway looks and acts a lot like Somerled of Argyll.
Lots of Viking connections. Somerled's father was Gillebride and his
grandfather was Gille Adomnain. The last two names are typically Irish
or
Scottish which helped foster the belief that his Colla Uais pedigree was
true.
Of course it turned out it was not:

http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/somerled.htm

If Fergus of Galloway's father really was named Somairle that doesn't
prove much in and of itself. But to me it looks like the records of
Somerled
with a mixture of Celtic and Viking names. I can easily believe he was
part
of the Gall Gaedhil or the later Innsi Gall described in the annals.

The term Galloway for the territory of Fergus already existed in his own
time (d. 1161). According to the Wikipedia entry he called himself rex
Galwitensium ("King of Galloway"). I'm not sure how Galwitensium could
become Galloway but those who have studied the linguistics of the area
might
have some idea.

If Fergus and the line he came from were Norse or Danish (or you could
say
just Viking) does that say anything about where M222 came from in
Galloway? Certainly there is some M222 in Scandinavian countries. The
Capelli
study of the British Isles listed two in Denmark. And there are at least
a
few samples in Ysearch from Iceland or Sweden. Those samples are
generally
perceived by most as the result of Irish slaves or monks. That could be
true. That would leave the same origin for M222 in Galloway (Ireland)
yet
bring it to Galloway via a different route (Scandinavia).

Or some M222 from Ireland might have come to Galloway not from
Scandinavia
but from some kind of mixture in the Norse controlled western Isles or
kingdom of Mann. There is a record of a a daughter of Muirchertach
MacLochlainn, king of the northern Ui Neill and High King of Ireland,
marrying a kIng
of Mann. Or it may have been son of this Muirchertach. Not sure. I'd
have to look it up.

I wonder if some kind of adoption or foster situation occurred between
the
line of the M222 High kings of Ireland and the Viking kings of the Isles
and Mann? Or it didn't have to be in the line of the high kings.
Remember
the story about the O Cathain bride and her marriage retinue of fighting
men from Ireland who settled in McDonald territory? Something similar
might
have occurred with the marriage of a daughter of Muirchertach
MacLochlainn
and the king of Mann.

That though would limit M222 in Scotland and mainly Galloway to the
period
in question. Muirchertach MacLochlainn died in 1166, an exact
contemporary of Fergus of Galloway. Or there could be some other
causative factor in
play prior to Muirchertach in contacts between the Irish High Kings
(M222)
and the Norse kings of the western Isles and Mann.


John

R1b1c7 Research and Links:

http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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