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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2010-09 > 1285103219

From: Paul Conroy <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] FTDNA Home Page
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 17:06:59 -0400
References: <000001cb5979$5050f970$f0f2ec50$@com>
In-Reply-To: <000001cb5979$5050f970$f0f2ec50$@com>


You are correct - I was unaware of this much closer match to me.

The reason are multiple:
1. By default ftDNA shows you close matches at 12 markers only, plus close
matches from whatever you set as your default surname/geographic group - in
my case the Conroy Group. As this Dunn was not a member, he never showed up.
2. I am interested in deep ancestry of R-M222, and so have been more active
in the the R-L21 group project, DNA-Forums.com and WorldFamilies.com in this
3. I have become very interested in my own specific DNA, as tested by
23AndMe.com, and am a very active participant there, and related sites.

My thinking on R-M222 is has come to resemble that of Jean Manco to some
extent, that R-M222 may represent La Tene Celts in Ireland, with an initial
invasion/settlement site of North East Ireland. She sees the Cruitin as
being synonymous with La Tene Celts. It's certainly true that R-M222 has a
distribution like that of the Cruitin in Ireland.

What I think happened is that 200 BC or before saw an invasion/migration of
p-Celtic La Tene Celts from Continental Europe - maybe via Scotland, but not
necessarily. They overwhelmed the whole North of the country, and split it
into 2 different dialectal domains and cultures. Then somewhere after 150
AD, there was a resurgence of the q-Celtic Southern half of the country -
perhaps infused by a new chiefly lineage of the Connachta - from the area of
modern day Belgium. This group swept North, then East, in a re-conquista of
Northern Ireland, and slowly defeated and assimilated the Cruitin - who may
have fled in part to South Western Scotland.
Niall may have been mythical, but if not, may have been like Somerled - who
crushed the Vikings in the Hebrides and assimilated them, though he himself
was seemingly of Viking descent. More here:

Of course this is all just conjecture on my part, but might go some way to
explain the web of interconnections of R-M222.


On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Sandy Paterson <
> wrote:

> Recently, a match at a gd of 2 over 37 markers with a Burks showed up on my
> FTDNA home page. I checked the Burks site and found that the match is with
> kit number 23033. Since my kit number is 118913, this means that it's an
> old
> match that has only recently found its way on to my FTDNA home page.
> I think this means that the matches shown on our home pages are limited to
> matches with testees who have given permission to FTDNA to fasciliate
> contact between testees.
> If I'm right, all of us have many more non-surname matches in FTDNA than we
> think. This could explain why David Ewing believed for a long time that 3
> off-modal, non-surname matches with Ewing were like hen's teeth, whereas I
> had already found a few cases of 4 off-modal Ewing matches with McCann's or
> variants.
> I think this also explains why Paul Conroy was unaware of any matches at 67
> markers, whereas I have found a Conroy match to a Dunn at a gd of 5 over 67
> markers.
> This doesn't strike me as a very satisfactory state of affairs. All of us
> are influenced by what we see (our home pages) and I suspect that this has
> had a negative influence on progress in M222 in exploring non-surname,
> perhaps pre-surname kinships.
> I don't have a solution to the problem. Does anyone else perhaps?
> Sandy
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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