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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2010-07 > 1280516580


From: "Sandy Paterson" <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] How long has M222 been in Scotland?
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:03:00 +0100
References: <897e8.6e6e361e.398334d1@aol.com>,<BLU116-W25112EED19134396966D71A9AA0@phx.gbl>,<000301cb3004$2836e600$78a4b200$@com><BLU116-W206A1026AA9F0415A7F75AA9AA0@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <BLU116-W206A1026AA9F0415A7F75AA9AA0@phx.gbl>


Hi Iain

It's the one at

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/clandonnachaidh/default.aspx


Subgroups B and E are the ones that contain the M222. I think I should have
a look at the 37 marker haplotypes to get a better sample size.

Sandy


-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy
Sent: 30 July 2010 18:30
To:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] How long has M222 been in Scotland?


Sandy

If you mean Duncan I'm puzzled as this seems to be from the NE as a surname
(irrespective of its origins as a first name). Can you point me to this
data? You would have to compare the same group size for the comparison you
cited of course. Otherwise the groups are so disparate in size I would
almost draw the opposite conclusion.

I haven't crunched any TMRCA numbers for my Kennedy data which is offline,
although I would mention that our group modal exactly lies on the main M222
modal. Based on recent posts, this may not mean anything at all in itself.

Iain







----------------------------------------
> From:
> To:
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:27:51 +0100
> Subject: [R-M222] How long has M222 been in Scotland?
>
> Iain,
>
> Most attempts to address this question that I'm aware of have involved
> trying to compare TMRCA estimates of Scots M222 with Irish M222. The
problem
> of course is that with many surnames it's difficult to know where the
> surname originated.
>
> It struck me that one way to address the question would be to try to
> identify one or more Scots Clans that :
>
> 1. Are recognised as being old.
> 2. Contain a fair amount of M222.
>
> The one that springs to mind is Clan Duncan. You may be able to suggest
one
> or two others...
>
> Anyway, I've had a look at Clan Duncan subgroups B and E. There are 11
> seemingly M222 67-marker haplotypes, and the highest gd between two
> haplotypes is 21. If we compare this to M222 in toto, we find the highest
gd
> to be 29 (Conroy and Doherty). Superficially then (and the sample size for
> Duncan is far too low for my liking), the tentative suggestion is that
M222
> in Ireland is probably older.
>
> I'd be interested in your thoughts, and those of anyone else who has a
> reasoned view.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Iain Kennedy
> Sent: 30 July 2010 10:19
> To:
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Off-modal matches - simulation
>
>
> It depends what you mean by Antrim being 'not now a hotbed of M222' -
> compared with Donegal or SW Scotland? If the former then that is not
really
> relevant. And how have you determined Antrim ancestry, is this pre- or
> post-plantation?
>
>
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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