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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2010-07 > 1280481532

From: Iain Kennedy <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Off-modal matches - simulation
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:18:52 +0000
References: <897e8.6e6e361e.398334d1@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <897e8.6e6e361e.398334d1@aol.com>

It depends what you mean by Antrim being 'not now a hotbed of M222' - compared with Donegal or SW Scotland? If the former then that is not really relevant. And how have you determined Antrim ancestry, is this pre- or post-plantation?

What is needed is a national level survey of both Ireland and Scotland. I have just been re-reading my copy of Sykes's Blood of the Isles. For those who haven't read it, he had access to TCD data, his own customer database which covers both Ireland and Scotland and national level sampling all over Scotland with the blood transfusion service. He seems to have split the Pictish and Gaelic regions of Scotland and even discusses the McEvoy findings but frustratingly he doesn't seem to follow up the obvious question of what levels of M222 he found in Scotland (he would have had to crudely estimate it from low resolution STRs but that would probably suffice for our purposes). The Sykes book came out in 2006 so maybe the Irish study wasn't officially published when it went to print and he had to hold off.

The only comparable survey I can recall was the old Capelli study but looking at his map his Irish locations are poor choices. He did however test three points in an axis across northern Scotland - Stonehaven, Pitlochry and Oban. The data was very low res. I am sure David Wilson must have looked at this before but does anyone have the data and can they estimate M222 from it?



> From:
> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:47:29 -0400
> To: ;
> Subject: Re: [R-M222] Off-modal matches - simulation
> <snip>

> I know a lot of people point to the Irish Dal Riata as a source for M222
> in Scotland but I doubt it myself for two reasons. At least one Scottish
> archeologist (Campbell) doesn't believe the supposed migration ever took
> place and the legend is just a foundation myth for the Scottish kings; and
> secondly, Antrim is not now a hotbed of M222 and there is no reason to suppose
> the Dal Fiatach and Dal Riata tribes of Ulster had any M222 connections.
> Most Irish historians believe that the Irish Dal Riata, if they did relocate
> to Scotland, did so under pressure from the Ui Neill tribes pushing
> northward into new territory.
> John

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