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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2010-07 > 1280373254

From: J David Grierson <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Off-modal matches - simulation
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:14:46 +1000
References: <274d3.2cba91e5.3981f874@aol.com> <4C50DEB8.6020800@melbpc.org.au><4C50EBF9.80103@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <4C50EBF9.80103@aol.com>

Well, yes I do, but I can't substantiate it scientifically at this time.
I've been in correspondence with Alan (I assume you meant Milliken) for
some years, and I believe I have established that the Amuliganes
(McRath, Millikin, Mulligan etc) are related to the Griersons. Alan
pointed out a while ago that the c1400 charter transferring some land
between a McRath and a Grierson uses the latin term "consanguineo"
meaning "of the same blood, related by blood, kindred", and this led me
down that particular track, ie to find common off-modal markers across
the area.

I'm trying to establish as fact that M222 predates Niall, and I'm
further guessing that it is a French or Iberian outcome, not an Irish
one. My guess is that there were separate migrations from mainland
Europe. There is also the issue of whether there ever was a Dalriadic
migration Ireland to Scotland, because some have argued that the M222
came along on that occasion.

I'll send my paper about this to you if you wish.

John Mclaughlin wrote:
> On 7/28/2010 8:51 PM, J David Grierson wrote:
>> I should also point out that some of these values are still being
>> carried by Dunbars, Macadams and other SW Scots, these undoubtedly
>> predating the adoption of surnames.
> Do you have an opinion on why there are a lot of M222 matches in SW
> Scotland? Alan Mulligan has been working on that for years. Some of
> his theories center on the Gall Gaedhil, although I personally can see
> no reason why they would be M222. I also know of no historical
> migration that might explain M222 in the SW lowlands of Scotland. What
> we know of M222 in Ireland is confined to the doings of the descendants
> of Nial and the Connachta in the west. We have no idea what happened
> prior to that (c. 400 AD). Yet most agree M222 pre-dates Nial. O'
> Rahilly accepted Nial as an historical figure as well as his father.
> But he believed nothing that was said before that time, including
> legends of Conn 'of the Hundred Battles.' The only other figure in the
> pedigree he accepted as genuine was Tuathal Teachtmar but there are
> probably no genuine historical events connected with him in mythology.
> Most of the contacts that I know of between the Ui Neill of NW Ireland
> and western Scotland took place during the gallowglass period c. 1200
> and later.
> It's a complete mystery to me.
> John
> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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