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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2010-07 > 1279891542

Subject: Re: [R-M222] Roll Call
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:25:42 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1279868405.565.dna-r1b1c7@rootsweb.com>

Hi Thomas,

"Salt Lake" is the most important genealogical resource on the planet. Here's a couple free sources:
www.rootsweb.com . www.cyndislist.com.

>Is Salt Lake on the internet for genealogists?

www.familysearch.org -- however what is on line is a very small percentage of what is in the library. Recall I said I WENT there. The major reason was to access the books that are NOT microfilmed. The books and manuscripts that are can often be ordered at your local Family History Center. This huge library system was designed for the purpose of helping you do your genealogy. It has the largest collection of genealogical records on the planet. It provides FREE (downloadable off the Internet or from your local FHC at a modest cost) all kinds of how to guides written by real experts: People who spend their lives figuring out how to do genealogy and then sharing with you what they've learned.

The most important thing here is to learn how to learn. If you can learn how to learn, then when things change, you can learn the new stuff. The way we did genealogy just FIVE years ago, heck, just ONE year ago has changed totally, so we gotta learn. No where is this more apparent than in Irish genealogy where new resources are being made available constantly.

>Are other sites for records on the internet a google search?

Yes. Google all the time. The most important thing to learn is to use it. There's endless resources out there. The only thing keeping you from finding your ancestors is you -- start typing into the browser window and don't ever stop. This is the simplest form of research. Genealogy is basically a research project. If you have a degree in Library Science, you're prepared <grin>. The rest of us...we are learning how to research.

One of the first things you need to realize is that 99.9999999% of the info needed to solve your more difficult problems is not in ANYONE's brain,. So asking someone on a surname board will not get you an answer. No one knows where your ancestors are. It took me years to figure this out <grin>! The information we seek is in a couple places:

1. A record stored somewhere. Your task is to find it.

2. Encoded as a set of clues. You've watched detective stories on TV, right? How often do you find the murderer holding the gun over the victim? Not very often. The record I mentioned above is called "The Smoking Gun". A lot of people spend decades looking for a smoking gun -- a record that says "This guy is the father of that guy, your ancestor". Once in a while you do find that record, especially in the last 150 years we kept records that do that. However often you must put on your detective hat and employ the same methods they do to solve mysteries. If you require a smoking gun to solve your mystery, get used to living with the mystery. However if you put your thinking cap on and learn, you can solve mysteries just like a TV detective. There are books that teach you how to do that as well as articles in magazines and classes -- some on line. (see cyndislist, above). This is the only way to solve most murders and genealogy brick walls.

> Is there a reference site for researching professionally?

I am not sure what you are asking. Are there sites where you can get professional level information? bookstores and libraries are the traditional answer..... Both the land-based and the Internet types are full of books and articles written by professionals (ie experts) for the sole purpose of helping you out. Check Ancestry (www.ancestry.com), amazon, etc. Your local library has resources as well as interlibrary loan. You need HOW TO books. There's a lot on Irish genealogy, but I must warn you, some will tell you you can't succeed. These people might have important tips, but the authors have failed to figure out how to do Irish genealogy, so ignore them when they say 'can't'. They can't, but that doesn't mean you can't.

The Bible of Irish genealogy is Falley "Irish and Scotch Irish Ancestral Research". It is most likely in your local library. It is of little use to you now. You must work up to it. May I suggest Radford and Betit's "A Genealogists Guide to Discovering your Irish Ancestors"? Find it at your local library or amazon.

Some books are not going to be wildly helpful right now, like "Researching Scots-Irish Ancestors" by Maxwell because this book focuses on records that are in PRONI (Public Record Office of Northern Ireland). You are not in Belfast, are you? Even if you were, this book is not where you start. Why? Well because some one spends 30 years researching the manuscripts in PRONI and writes a book about his family or local area. That book has an index in the back and is the summation of his or her's life's work. That book is NOT in PRONI. It is in a library. You cannot go to PRONI (or any other repository of manuscripts) and find in a week what he found in 30 years. So you use the books first to help you figure out where to drill down more deeply. I wasted a week in PRONI and found more info in one afternoon at the Linen Hall Library in Belfast than I did in the week. THen I wanted to go back to PRONI but the airplane was leaving.

A lot of the books and records are in Salt Lake at the Family History Library. Its catalog is on line, above, as well as a lot of records including 3 collections of Irish civil registration indexes and 70 plus film from PRONI, not to mention collections from Dublin and London. These days you don't have to drive to a library in your car: you use your google. You have heard of Google books? There are old books there free that I paid $100 for!! Old books that were written 200 years ago that record the early history of the north of Ireland (and everywhere else <grin>). Like the Montgomery Manuscripts:
(Just go to www.google.com and type in hill Montgomery Manuscripts Down )

These are papers that document the early settlement of County Down.

However the starting point is probably Hanna "The Scotch Irish". This two vol book is in your local library and also free at www.ancestry.com. At ancestry it is 'Scots-Irish' . It contains a lot of source material, much relevant largely to the Scottish newcomers, but it is also Irish history. It includes transcriptions of original 'censuses' done in King James' public plantations in the first 30 years or so of its founding. His son had other fish to fry and wasn't very interested, so he stopped keeping these records. It'll tell you the owners of the estates in Cavan and their history for 30 years. Many of these were Irish people, not planters. You can use it to access deeds and other records about these families. In their records are the names of your ancestors, maybe.

You will end up learning about the history of the district, the estates, and of the major players in its history -- and your ancestors are named in their records.

If you are lucky, your ancestors were "bad boys" --their names will appear in records. The English (God bless them) have many faults as we here would no doubt agree, but they got one huge feature we should love them for: they are compulsive record keepers. Not so good as the French, but a lot better than our ancestors. During times of unrest in Ireland, lots of names were documented on all sides of the equation. The worse kind of Irish ancestor to have is the one who stayed out of trouble. He's the hardest one to find.

BYW, in the last year a lot of indexes to surviving Irish church records etc, are indexed on line at a website. http://www.irish-roots.ie/ You register and can check the indexes for free. Viewing transcribed information costs you money. Yeh, but it makes it possible to do Irish genealogy. Before, you'd spend hundreds of dollars hiring someone in Dublin to maybe find the information. There was no common index, just rows and rows of microfilm (some also in Salt Lake!). Frankly it's impossible to scroll through microfilm of all the records for even one county. Now you can do it yourself while drinking Guinness.

Another book is Ryan "Irish Records". It contains the commonest types of records and organizes church records by parish. If the records are in Salt Lake at the FHL, he gives the film number. These days, use the indexes above and then see if they're in Salt Lake. If so you can order the microfilm (to view at your local Family History Center) cheaper, but you will have to wait for the film to come. A trade off.

There's an email list here that is designed to help. The name is "Scotch Irish", but it may be able to help with anything Irish, though our area of expertise is Protestant records in Ireland and related peoples. There's a lot of ethnic Irish lists that will know Catholic parish records. www.rootsweb.com is the place to find them. A lot of people who think their ancestors were Scots get DNA tests and discover their Y chromosome is Irish. This shouldn't be surprising to those who have read Hanna "Scotch Irish".
http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/NIR/Scotch-Irish.html . So we do discuss early Irish history. It is not a tribal resource.

If you meant by professional that you are looking to hire someone, there are sites that aggregate those as well. I do research for people. You have to know it is an unregulated industry. You find people trying to do it with no training at all (but they think they are trained). The flashy names demand huge amounts of money. Some are located in Salt Lake and only do research there. You can hire someone in Northern Ireland (email me if you need a good person) but that person cannot help you collect more clues on the family in America. That's the biggest problem they got: Americans, etc, showing up with little info.

I really believe, unless you won the lottery, you need to learn the basics; otherwise how can you assess how to hire the right person or how to tell if they're no good? I do a lot of subcontracting (ie why drive 5 hours to Philadelphia to get a probate record?) . Some of the people who are a member of the professional organization APGEN (source of good how to info) are rip offs and some are very good:
http://www.apgen.org/ . Let the buyer beware.

However if you want more info probably you should email me privately before the rest of the list gets bored and kicks me off.

Linda Merle

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