DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-12 > 1260657945


From: Moore <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Coyne and Golden project families
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:45:45 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <002501ca7b6b$13bb7590$aa00a8c0@Sisko>


I too apologize for harsh comments made. J Moore

--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Gregory Brown <> wrote:

From: Gregory Brown <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Coyne and Golden project families
To:
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 3:38 PM

Many thanks to those who posted links to papers discussing the theory behind TMRCA adjustments.  I
found the Walsh paper particularly interesting, and both the Walsh and Chandler papers make a strong
mathematical argument for such adjustments based upon the distribution of variation seen within a
derived population such as R-M222 while still acknowledging the limitations imposed by the
underlying necessary assumptions...an argument which was never (in my mind) in dispute.  The portion
of this thread which led to (at times) heated discussion, however, was the following:

"Close matches when one of the parties is near modal M222+ mean nothing at all.--Sandy"

Absolute statements such as this are dangerously misleading. "Doubling the TMRCA", especially when
looking at a 67-67 match, is a far cry from "meaning nothing at all", which is exactly why people
were confused by Sandy's statement and asked for more information.

I'm glad the discussion has finally gotten around to examining publications that acknowledge and
explain the uncertainty that surrounds any study which deals with population dynamics, variable
mutation rates and probabilities and draw appropriate conclusions.  Thanks again to those who
provided them.

Finally, I apologize to the list for my own posts that became more sarcastic as the thread
continued. Perhaps my initial posts were not well worded and offended Sandy somehow.  All anyone
ever wanted was some additional info to help them understand that initial broad statement. Being met
with derision is a bit like being confronted by a bully, which I do not tolerate well.  Again, my
apologies to the other members of the list.

Greg




R1b1c7 Research and Links:

http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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