DNA-R1B1C7-L ArchivesArchiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-09 > 1253655818
Subject: Re: [R-M222]Check out Google Directory - Regional > Europe > United Kingdom ...
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:43:38 EDT
In a message dated 9/22/2009 10:21:21 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Many of the Scottish highland surname DNA projects have a sprinkling of
men that have tested positive for M222. However, none of those highland
surname projects are weighted toward M222 positive - the weight is going toward
L21 positive M222 negative.
The Scots Modal is L21 positive M222 negative.
I wonder if that might in some way point to the origins of M222 in
Scotland. I've found the same thing - most of the highland surname projects I've
looked at do only contain a scattering of M222. Contrast that to Ireland
where entire surname groups linked by tribal relationships are a majority
M222. Given the multiple origins of most surnames it is difficult to know
exactly what you have at times. But there is a large group of Dohertys in
Donegal in which M222 comprises over 75% of the samples and the McLaughlins in
the same county appear to have about the same ratio. Others less well
sampled such as the O'Donnells and O'Gallaghers also appear to be a majority
If nothing else the fact that none of the major Scottish clans are a
majority M222 (even the chieftains) would seem to indicate M222 did not
originate among the so-called Dal Riata clans of Scotland, although I'm not sure
there is really such a thing. The Scottish pedigrees linking most of the
major clans to the descendants of Er seems to be nothing but an artificial
medieval genealogical scheme. There is not a single Scottish clan linked to
Pictish stock in these manuscripts which surely is an unlikely omission.
The only Scottish clan I know of possibly linked to northern British stock a
re the Campbells and their pedigree from King Arthur and Merlyn is fabulous
The prevailing opinion appears to be M222 originated in Ireland and from
there (somehow and sometime) migrated to Scotland. Yet no one has shown in
historical sources how or when this may have occurred. It certainly was
not part of the possibly unhistorical Dal Riatic invasion of western Scotland
from NE Ireland. M222 is rare or nonexistent in that part of Ireland except
in Scottish Plantation stock. There's lots of speculation about the
Columban monastic foundation at Iona with connections with Derry in NW
Ireland. But I personally doubt a monastic foundation could result in M222 in
Scotland scattered mainly across the lowlands and into northern Britain. That
in itself is a debatable statement to some. Where is M222 mostly to be
found in Scotland? It doesn't seem to be especially heavy in the western
isles. Or at least no more so than the lowlands.
The latest TMRCA estimates for M222 run to about 0 AD, plus or minus a few
centuries. That's not old. In fact it's just a few centuries prior to
the time of Nial of the Nine Hostages (ca. 400 AD). No one has yet shown
that either M222 population (Ireland or Scotland) appears to be appreciably
older than the other. I'm aware of lots of contact between NW Ireland and
the western isles in the gallowglass period. But that was circa 1300 AD..
There are legends among the McDonalds of an O Cathain bride who brought with
her to Scotland a large retinue of followers from O Cathain territory.
And known contacts between the O'Donnells and the McDonalds. Yet somehow I
think M222 was in Scotland long before that. At the time of Nial (his
descendants do appear to be mostly M222) the tribe then called the Dal Quinn was
either in the midlands of Connacht, depending on which version of Irish
history you believe (O'Rahilly vs. Byrne).. For the next five or six
centuries his descendants were consumed with establishing kingdoms in the
midlands, Connacht and NW Ireland. I see nothing at this time period that might
have brought M222 from Ireland to Scotland in large numbers.
There probably is no way to know the answer to this question. Fun to
think about though.
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