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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-04 > 1240022169


From:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Byrne TMRCA Estimates
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:36:09 EDT


In a message dated 4/17/2009 6:26:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
writes:

The website of the General Registry for Scotland gives Docherty as the
80th most common surname in Scotland. McLaughlin is joint 98th and neither of
Ewing or Dunbar are in the top hundred.

I've wondered if all Dohertys (various spellings) were Irish or if the
surname also arose independently in Scotland. The Donegal Dohertys have a
pretty distinctive DNA modal - but not all the M222 Dohertys in their project
match it exactly. You also cannot go by the stated origins because the
head of the Doherty clan is a terrible genealogists and tries to connect every
Doherty to some name in Donegal. At one point he mistakenly connected my
McLaughlin line and that mistake is still in the clan database.

When I talk about M222 Donegal McLaughlins I'm only referring to a select
group of M222 McLaughlins who match a family modal.

There are some early records for Donegal which basically consist of the
settler population in the early 1600s. A rent roll of Derry is one; the
muster rolls of 1630 are another one. The records of the Derry Cathedral are
another. Mc names are conspicuously absent in most of these records. I saw
none in the rent roll of Derry; none in the Muster Rolls; when it comes to
the parish records of Derry cathedral there are a lot of McLaughlins but
it's almost impossible to tell if they are native Irish or Scottish
settlers. At the time the Derry cathedral was Church of England. There are some
McLaughlin names in local Presbyterian church records of the 1700s but again
it's hard to tell if they are converted native Irish or Scots.

Most sources I've read on the Plantation say the Scottish settlers were
mainly from the lowlands. Partly because that's where the Undertakers and
Servitors were from and partly because the English government didn't trust
the highlanders any better than they did the Irish. George HIll's
Plantation of Ulster has a lot of interesting info on those granted land in Ulster.

My own DNA matches the large group we call the Donegal cluster
McLaughlins. We have four or five of us with excellent paper trails to at least
Donegal, Tyrone or Londonderry. What really persuades me that these are Irish
MacLochlainns is the fact the a goodly portion of Dohertys also have the
same unique family markers. That could be due to shared ancestry (Nial) or
simply living in close proximity for 600 years. I doubt a few Scottish
Maclachlan settlers in Donegal could have affected the local DNA in this way.

The Dohertys have a current chieftain who matches the typically Donegal
Doherty DNA. He's a descendant of Sir Cahir O'Doherty, slain circa 1608.
This family moved to Spain in the late 1700s. They've got a decent paper
trail with a few shaky generations which is why Sean Murphy lists them as
unproven in his list of Irish chieftains.

At this point I don't think the Scottish Maclachlans even show much
evidence of a common descent. We have some M222 McLaughlins who say they're from
Scotland but even more who are not M222, including samples from
Argyllshire, the Ardamurchan peninsula and Sterlingshire. It's rare to find even two
who match closely. Some could be very distantly related. Some in general
match what they call the Scot modal or at least part of it.

I think it's going to be a while before we figure out anything definite
about the Scottish Maclachlans.


John



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