DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-04 > 1239967586


From: "Sandy Paterson" <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Byrne TMRCA Estimates
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:26:26 +0100
References: <c2e.50723cc4.37191488@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c2e.50723cc4.37191488@aol.com>


Hi John

>
We've got some families we can be pretty sure are Irish. Dohertys, a
selected group of McLaughlins. We've got some we can be pretty sure are
Scottish: Ewings, Dunbars, Griersons.
>


The website of the General Registry for Scotland gives Docherty as the 80th most common surname in Scotland. McLaughlin is joint 98th and neither of Ewing or Dunbar are in the top hundred.

The 1901 census gives 5,666 people with the surname Dougherty or variants, but only 2,475 Ewings.

So I'm beginning to wonder whether both Doherty's and McLaughlins aren't perhaps a mixture of Irish-Irish and Scots-Irish. Are you aware of a source of plantation names?


Sandy




-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of
Sent: 17 April 2009 00:09
To:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Byrne TMRCA Estimates

In a message dated 4/16/2009 4:40:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
writes:

If so, wouldn't a phylo chart based on the modal for each group show which
surnames were grouped into "tribal" subdivisions post-Niall but before
this split? Didn't we experiment with this at one time and found that the
Reillys, McGoverns, and Fergusons were on the same branch, while the Dohertys
and Gallaghers were close on another?

I tried running phylo charts on the entire M222 project, It was a
complete mess with a confusing array of median vectors running all over the place.
Others have tried phylo charts with modals - but that doesn't seem to work
very well either. At one time I ran charts with Dohertys, McLaughlins and
Ewings but didn't get much out of the result.

it seems logical to me that if you did TMRCA estimates on a group of
related McLaughlins from Donegal, the result would be based on the date of
their common ancestor, in this case, possibly Domhnall MacLochlainn of Caim
Eirge, d. 1241. Or even an earlier Ardgar MacLochlainn, d. 1054.

You could do the same thing for the O'Dohertys, Ewings, Dunbars,
Griersons or any other family with multiple surname matches. But all you'd find
in each is a date to the most common recent ancestor.

When you compare these families though it seems the date for the MRCA
should go much further back to Nial or beyond.

We've got some families we can be pretty sure are Irish. Dohertys, a
selected group of McLaughlins. We've got some we can be pretty sure are
Scottish: Ewings, Dunbars, Griersons. Others I'm not sure of. There are a lot
of Cowans in the project but most of them list an origin in Ireland. I
think one says Scotland. The McCord surname is probably Scottish. If I get
time I'll go through the project and see how each sample self reports
itself (Ireland, Scotland or whatever). That may or may not mean much given all
the cross migration over the centuries.

We have a McLaughlin in our project who also thought the family was
Scottish. So much so that her grandfather changed the spelling of his name to
Maclachlan. Then they found out their McLaughlin ancestor was born in
Ireland through census records. In DNA they match our McLaughlin of Donegal
group. Place of origin can be misleading. This family had no idea they had an
Irish ancestor who migrated to Scotland.


John
**************Great deals on Dell’s most popular laptops – Starting at
$479 (http://pr.atwol
a.com/promoclk/100126575x1220029082x1201385915/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213969145%3B35701480%3Bh)
R1b1c7 Research and Links:

http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message


This thread: