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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-04 > 1239796615


From: J David Grierson <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] TMRCA Estimaes (ASD)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:56:55 +1000
References: <c40.582d8291.3716ac42@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c40.582d8291.3716ac42@aol.com>


John,
FWIIW, I have calculated (assessed is probably a better word) the
following modals for that group surnamed Grier, Grierson and Greer, as
follows:
For all those assessed as M222, with claimed ancestry both Scots and Irish:
13,25,14,11,11,13,12,12,12,14,14,29,18,9,10,11,11,25,15,18,30,15,16,17,17,11,11,19,23,17,16,19,18,37,41,12,12,
and from positions 38-67 identical to the M222 modal except for 444
which is 13. Remarkably every Grier/Grierson/Greer tested at 444 (11
of), including all M222, R1b and I1, scores 13. 13 at 444 is quite
unusual in M222.
Now, in the assessed M222 group, a sub-modal for those that have
identified Scotland as the ancestral location (all are Grier/Grierson),
the modal varies slightly:
13,25,14,11,11,13,12,12,12,13,14,29,18,9,10,11,11,25,15,18,30,15,16,17,17,12,11,19,23,17,16,18,18,37,40,13,12,
and for positions 38-67, as above except 490 might be 13, but I think
this is a random mutation. So, the Scots group shows differences at
389-1, 460 (affected by one strong variation), 576 (solidly 18 in
Scotland), CDYb, and 442. Of these, 389-1 at 13 in Scotland, and the
very solid 458 at 18 for all bar one of the M222s seem the most significant.

Unfortunately, I have very few tested M222s in these groups, so there is
a certain fudge factor involved. I incline to the view that all R1bs
need to be tested for Haplogroup, as Haplotype guesstimates are
demonstrably misleading in many cases. I hope to publish my Excel
spreadsheets on the web shortly.
I personally (FTDNA 7874) have a GD of 9 with the M222 modal from
YSearch. I think it likely that my family had been in Scotland since at
least the 13th Century.

Cheers
David Grierson in Melbourne


wrote:
> <DEL>
>
> If these TMRCA dates are anywhere near correct I would have to assume M222
> originated in Ireland at about the time of Nial and from there spread to
> England, Scotland, and beyond on the continent. Yet somehow I have a
> nagging suspicion the DNA is older than that.
>
> <DEL>

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