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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-04 > 1239353097


From: Michael Keaveney <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Walk on the Y tests
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:44:57 +0100
References: <c90.3f444e81.370fec50@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <c90.3f444e81.370fec50@aol.com>


Tom O'Connor in his book "Hand of
History..."<http://www.handofhistory.com>claims that the Mannions are
descendants of Menapi Celts from Belgium who
arrived in Ireland around 10BC.

He also claims that the Isle of *Man*, Fer*man*agh and *Mon*aghan are named
after this maritime tribe. The Ulster counties are named after
Arklow/Wicklow Menapi who found themselves pushed north by invasion pressure
from the south east.

The Galway Wards, who are said to be Sogain, have a significant M222
element.

Michael

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 1:26 AM, <> wrote:

> We now have two M222 people who will be ordering the Walk on the Y test
> search for new SNPS.
>
> The first is one of the Megonnigil or variant surnames in the M222
> project. The second is a Mannion ( Kit137003 - M222 Project.
>
> I know the Mannion sample is from Ireland (Connacht). The location is not
> far from Roscommon but possibly in Galway. I don't think the Megonnigils
> know exactly where they're from but McGonigal and variants are common to
> Donegal.
>
> For what it's worth, Mannion in Ireland (O'Mannin, O'Mannion) is an Ui
> Maine surname from Galway. But generally regarded as descended from the
> pre-Gaelic Sodhan (or Soghan) race (MacLysaght). O'Rahilly said much the
> same
> thing.
>
> The O'Loughin book of surnames has this to say:
>
> "A prominent family of the Ui Maine territory, it is said they descend
> most anciently from the Picts, a people who resided in Ireland before the
> coming of the Celts and Milesians."
>
> This analysis is much entangled with O'Rahilly's theories that Q-Celtic
> gaelic first came to Ireland with the Milesians.
>
> The Ireland in Maps site say this:
>
> "According to the "Book of Lecan" the Sogain were descended from Sodain
> (Soghan Sal-bhuidhe), the son of Fiachra Araidh, King of Ulster about 240
> AD.
> It would appear that they came to Galway about the 3rd century as they
> were well established there by St. Patrick's time. They occupied an area
> which, according to the Book of Uí Máine, stretched from the river Clare
> in the
> west to the river Suck in the east and from the river Shivern in the north
> to the Raford river in the south. This area was known as Mag Sencheineoil,
> or the plain of the old inhabitants.
>
> Onomasticon Goedelicum cites that the Ui Echach Coba, Ui Meith Macha and
> Conaille Murthemne are of the same stock as Sogain. They were members of
> Clann Conaill Cernaich, i.e. Dál n-Araide & Úi Echach Ulad & Conaille
> Murthemni & Laígsi Laigen & na secht Sogain. "
>
> I found the reference to Fiachra Araidh interesting. He was the founder
> of the Dal nAraidhi of Ulster, one of the few tribes in Ireland considered
> Cruithin by the annalists. But the main modern representative of that
> line
> in Ireland is Maguinness, who are mostly I haplogroup. There are however
> in
> the Trinity spreadsheet quite a few R1b Maguinness samples from Ulster who
> appear to be M222 as far as can be discerned at 12 markers. That's always
> been a puzzle to me since NE Ulster does not appear to be a current
> hotspot of M222 in Ireland.
>
> In this context though bear in mind a lot of Irish pedigrees are fakes.
> The O'Loughlins of Burren in Clare have a pedigree from Ir (mostly found
> in
> the old Red Branch territory of Ulster) but by DNA match the O'Briens of
> Thomond in Munster.
>
> I don't find it inconceivable that M222 is descended from some kind of
> Cruithin stock. Or what the Irish annalists called Cruithin. It's
> basically
> the same thing as the Scottish Pict designation. And we certainly find a
> lot of Picts in early records in Scotland. In fact Pict may ultimately
> simply have been a designation for the oldest inhabitants of Britain,
> Ireland
> and Scotland as a whole. Cruithin is derived from the same root as
> Pretani,
> the name of the oldest Greek geographers for the entire British Isles.
> Which later evolved into Brittania or Britain.
>
> Pat Tagart has set up a special L21 Walk on the Y project at FTDNA to
> co-ordinate the tests. The testees will be listed as in any other
> project, by
> Kit Number. The STRS will be shown.
>
>
> John
>
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> R1b1c7 Research and Links:
>
> http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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