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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-01 > 1231466735


From: Steven Lominac <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] Origin of M222
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:05:35 -0600
References: <d51.3e51abab.3697fc23@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <d51.3e51abab.3697fc23@aol.com>


I sense the momentum swinging away from Ireland though I agree with Alan's "reproductive jackpot" In Ireland comment. Sire in Eire. Why not? They were sealed off pretty well up there in the NW. A little item here and there seems to pop up that points to an off Ireland beginning of M222. John, I get the distinct feeling your trying to nudge us in that direction and rightfully so. This little mystery still has a story to tell. In my own research I have found some of our fellow M222s in different areas through the centuries. I don't know if you guys go through family search in the lds.org site but there are an awful lot of M222 surnames in various regions of France, Germany and Wales.

On a different note, I remember someone mentioning an M222 named Galyean a few weeks ago and lo and behold, I found a namesake? (Galeine) on the same ship as a possible Brittany relative of mine, Jean Lemenach on a vessel in 1720 heading for the "country" of Louisiana. http://bd.archivescanadafrance.org/acf/doc.xsp?&fmt=tab&id=FRAD017_000000005_de-221 Lots of M222s on the continent. Could they all be descended from the NW of Ireland or was their a split, the mass progenitor to Ireland and a few of us left on the continent?

Regards, Steve
> From: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:02:27 -0500> To: > Subject: [R-M222] Origin of M222> > This is a post from the GEN-DNA list I thought those on this list might find > interesting. The writer posts often on Irish subjects and has an > archeological background.> > I have to say I am a little sceptical that the M222 mutation actually > happened in Ireland. Often when you look really closely at it the match with known > historical movements is poor. For example M222 in Britain is a very poor > match for dark age Irish migration to Britain when you look at it closely. I > understand (is there a good map?) that its concentrated in the wrong areas of > Ireland (the NW rather than the NE where Irish Dalriada was located) and in > the wrong areas of Scotland (in the SW, Borders and central areas rather than > Argyll and the Hebrides where Scottish Dalriada was located). I am also > unaware of concentrations in NW and SW Wales and Cornwall where other Irish > settlement is known. Indeed, should we even expect M222 to be associated with > Irish settlements in Britain that originated in NE, SE and south coast Ireland > anyway?. Probably not. Obviously M222 does partly overlap with the areas of > Irish immigration but its> distribution is far wider than can be explained by the known historic > migrations and the hot spots are all wrong. > > In my opinion M222's distribution must relate to prehistoric movements > (presumably late prehistoric judging by its relative youth) and from what I know > the about prehistory of the isles, a British origin seems much more likely in > pre-Roman late prehistory. In the pre-Roman Iron Age, the direction of > influence seems to have been very much Britain to Ireland rather than Ireland to > Britain and this only seems to have reversed in the later Roman period. Its > even possible that Niall or his immediate ancestors only arrived in Ireland as > British refugees from the Roman invasions after the M222 mutation had > happened some centuries earlier in the pre-Roman Iron Age in western Britain. > > There is no question that M222 hit the reproductive jackpot in NW Ireland > but I doubt it originated there mainly on the grounds that the British > distribution cannot be explained easily by Irish settlement in Britain if you look at > it in detail. Has anyone ever calculated an age of the British M222 on its > own using variance or other techniques. You could even separate it into > English and Scottish. My guess is it will prove to be significantly older than > the early centuries AD date calculated for Irish M222. > > Alan> > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215047751x1200957972/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De>; cemailfooterNO62)> R1b1c7 Research and Links:> > http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/>; -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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