DNA-R1B1C7-L Archives

Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2009-01 > 1231214360


From: John Mclaughlin <>
Subject: [R-M222] Common markers in M222
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:59:20 -0600
References: <1496555639.2259671231187355221.JavaMail.root@sz0128a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <1496555639.2259671231187355221.JavaMail.root@sz0128a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


I went through the M222 project looking for the most common values at
mainly slow mutating markers.

DYS 391 = 10 (69)
DYS 390 = 24 (42)

There doesn't seem to be any correlation between these two markers.
Only a few with 390 = 24 also have 391 = 10.

DYS 439 = 11 (52)

DYS 19 = 15 (43)
Most noticeable in Ewings.

DYS 458 = 18 (104)
most noticeable in McLaughlins and Dohertys. Also Duncans.

Some of these numbers are skewed by large surname projects with the
value (McLaughlins, Dohertys, Ewings).

The one I'm puzzling over is DYS 391 = 10. This pulls up matches with a
lot of the Breifne clans in Ireland (Connachta) - O'Reilly, O'Rourke,
McGovern, Faughnan, a few McTiernan. Also a few possibly Ui Fiachrach
surnames (O Shaughnessy, Clarke or O'Clery).

However if you search for the marker in Ysearch a lot of other surnames
match, many in Scotland. One surname in the project said to be from
Wales matches as well (davidiy). I don't have any idea what these
Scottish matches might mean. And at this point I also do not know how
strong the correlation is with this marker value and the Breifny clans
said to descend from a half-brother of Nial 'of the Nine Hostages'.

It's solid in the McGovern DNA project. But samples for O'Rourkes are
few and O'Reilly samples aren't numerous either (about 12 combined) One
McDermot matches (FW54W) and several Byrnes. There aren't enough
O'Connor of Connacht samples to tell much (5). One McManus of five has
the value (close kin to the O'Connors). None of the O'Connor samples
has it.

In contrast, 391 = 10 does appear occasionally in the Doherty and
McLaughlin projects (descendants of Niall) but it unusual.

If there is one thing that is known about the Breifny M222 clans it
is that they are said to be pre-Nial, descending instead somehow from
the Connachta tribe from which Nial sprang.

If you put all the M222 samples from Ysearch with DYS 391 = 10 into
the McGee utility (about 200) the genetic distances are among the
closest I've seen in any M222 groups. That's unusual in my experience.
Normally what I see in large groups like this are a few obviously
related clusters in the genetic distance charts with a lot of samples
which obviously are related to no one else. The 391 = 10 group looks
like a large related cluster in the charts.

I'm not proposing any big theories here. This marker value may not
mean anything at all. But there are a lot of them in the project and it
does not seem typical of random type mutations popping up here and there
in low numbers.

You can see the genetic distance charts here:

http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/13-25-14-10.html

This is a big file and will take a while to load in a browser.


John


This thread: