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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-12 > 1228270869
From:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] NPE Frequency
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:21:09 EST
In a message dated 12/2/2008 4:02:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:
David Ewing, in a posting sometime in the past two days, raised the point
that some NPE's would result in an unchanged family haplogroup, which is
perfectly logical.
So in your example of the Doherty's with 68% still being R1b1c7, a goodly
bit of that 68% would probably represent NPE's where the natural father was
also R1b1c7, thus leaving the family haplogroup intact.
That is perfectly true. You couldn't detect an NPE in a mostly R1b1c7
population. Trinity college mentioned that in one of their articles. Most of the
Dohertys though match the Doherty modal. How many I don't know. Some also
appear to be McLaughlin NPEs. We haven't seen any that go the other way yet
but surely there are some.
What you are doing is just proving something "could" happen based on
statistics. I won't argue with that. Whether it's likely that happened is another
matter.
There are some McDonald researchers I know who are convinced the Colla Uais
pedigree is true despite the DNA evidence proving the chieftains are R1a.
One among them is Don Scheigal (sp?), quoted as an expert on the McDonald web
site. Don firmly believes an NPE must have been involved in the line of
Somerled; that the early histories are true which place Somerled and his ancestors
in descent from the Irish Airgialla but living in the Scottish Dal Riata.
But I personally think he's blinded by his long held belief that the Colla
Uais pedigree was true. Most of the Irish researchers I know involved with
Airgialla DNA are stunned by the lack of R1b1c7 DNA in Maguires, McMahons,
O'Hanlons and other Airgialla chieftains. They do not want to let go of the
cherished "King Colla" royal business of Irish mythology. The last I heard from
Mark McDonald he was still promoting the theory that the Colla Uais pedigree
was true but only in the female line.
Why not accept Somerled for what he most probably was? A Norse-Gaelic
hybrid who was Norse in the male line but Gaelic through the female line. That
was true of many of the figures in the western Isles and the Isle of Mann at
the time and the reason why the Irish annalists described the people living
there as Gall-gaedhil. It seems to me NPE is often bandied about in DNA when
someone does not like the results they see, as in the case of Somerled. Who
can prove you're wrong if you wave that baton? I can't. It could have happened
but most likely didn't.
If you look at the genealogy of the McDonalds, Somerled married the dau. of
the Norse King of Mann and had five sons. One son was Dugald, from whom came
the McDougals. Another son was Reginald, from whom came the McDonalds and
McAlisters. All of these chieftains tested R1a. Therefore the logical
implication is Somerled himself was Norse in the male line. There is simply no
wiggle room for argument here. Unless you want to play the NPE card and claim
Somerled himself was R1b and both lines later became R1a through NPEs. Ok.
How likely is it that the great Somerled was a cuckold? Or adopted his sons?
Not very.
Sometimes things are just what they seem to be.
John
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