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Archiver > DNA-R1B1C7 > 2008-11 > 1228072869


From: "Sandy Paterson" <>
Subject: Re: [R-M222] NPE Frequency
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:21:09 -0000
References: <e0d2d2870811301002o1f56c9cctd6197fb08fc588db@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <e0d2d2870811301002o1f56c9cctd6197fb08fc588db@mail.gmail.com>


Hi David

I was hoping that your medical background may prompt you to provide some
answers.

However,

>
As for your calculations about the Dal Riata,
you must consider that in the case of most NPEs in this group, the
biological father and the owner of the surname would both have been in the
Dal Riata group.
>

In some cases, yes. In most? Initially, perhaps, but not for many
generations. Thereafter I'd suggest it would be the other way round, with by
far the majority of NPE biological fathers being outside the Dalriadan
group.

Your point is relevant though in that NPE's in an area that is
overwhelmingly R1b1c7 will result in a far slower rate of change in
haplogroup or sub-clade . That would probably have been the case in NW
Ireland, which is probably why there is a far higher retention rate of
R1b1c7 compared to Scotland.

There is also the possibility of a change from R1b1c7 to something else, and
a subsequent change from that something else back to R1b1c7. I repeat
though, that the point I'm trying to make is that it is very wrong to assume
haplogroup or subclade continuity within a family/clan/grouping.


Sandy





-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of David Ewing
Sent: 30 November 2008 18:02
To:
Subject: Re: [R-M222] NPE Frequency

Sandy listed some of the ways a man can end up with a different surname than
his biological father.

- adoption
- using the mother's surname when the mother is unmarried
- misattributed paternity
- pregnant by a different man at time of marriage
- adultry during marriage
- father unknown

Here are some other ways a man can have a different surname than his
biological father:

- changing family name to the name of the wife in order to receive an
inheritance or garner social standting
- person without a surname choosing or being assigned one.
- person who has a surname changing it to hide from the law or show
switched clan loyalty.
- name changed in connection with moving between cultures or linguistic
groups, as with immigration officers altering or changing altogether
names
they could not pronounce at Ellis Island.

As for statistics on NPEs, I remember but cannot give a citation for the
statistic that 2% to 5% of fathers turn out not to be biologically related
to their presumptive children when tissue typing is done in connection with
looking for an organ donor. As for your calculations about the Dal Riata,
you must consider that in the case of most NPEs in this group, the
biological father and the owner of the surname would both have been in the
Dal Riata group.

David Ewing
R1b1c7 Research and Links:

http://clanmaclochlainn.com/R1b1c7/
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