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Subject: Re: [DNA-R1B1C7] MRCA of R1b1b2e as early as 1388 CE??
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 22:13:31 EDT
In a message dated 10/3/2008 8:56:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
writes:
Is there a question to historical fact for Niall of the Hostages? My
understanding is that Niall makes his first appearance in Tirechan's latin 'Life of
St Patrick' circa 670 AD. (Source 'Early Medieval Ireland 400-1200 by Daibhi
O Croinin") This about two hundred and fifty years after his reported
death. And St Adamnan's Life of St Columba (also a later 7th century text) has
Colmcille as a descendant of Fergus mac Conall Gulban, which seems confirms
the early Ui Neill pedigree? (Source 'The Illustrated Life of Coumba" by John
Marsden)
Bernard, as far as I know that's correct about Nial in the records. A
number of sons are named as "sons of Nial" in the annals but there are no entries
for Nial himself. The annals of Ulster just begin in 431 AD. I think the
same thing's true of the various lives of St. Patrick - just references to sons
of Nial. By the time these records were written the "sons of Nial" business
might have been as much legend as fact. So say a lot of historians.
Of course the Four Masters included the death of Nial in their compilation.
The Age of Christ, 405.
After Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaidh Muighmheadhoin, had been
twenty seven years in the sovereignty of Ireland, he was slain by Eochaidh,
son of Enna Ceinnseallach, at Muir nIcht, i.e. the sea between France and
England.
But this is also the crowd that prefaced the annals with tracts from the
Milesian legends.
Personally I think Nial probably was an historical character and not some
kind of myth but I take his exploits (as from Keating's History) with a grain
of salt..
I'm not sure I trust the list in Laud 610 of his sons though (14), although
only about 8 of them are said to have had descendants..
Níall mac Echach, cethri maic déc leis .i. Conall err Breg, Conall Gulpain
Guirt, Eogan, Carpre, Lóegaire, Fíachra, Mane, Énna, Óengus h-Uillderg, ulderg
Fergus Antem, Fergus Mátlorg, Trian, Húathgen, Coíldub.
John
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